Joshua Waitzkin?

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Conflagration_Planet
goldendog wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:

I read his book "Attacking Chess" (1995) that he wrote soon after becoming an IM, and it was obvious he had high hopes of getting to GM level. He studied, and played for some years after the book was written. If he had had the talent to get to GM level, he would have. He eventually realized he didn't have the talent to get to GM level, so he "lost the love" as he put it.

He last played seriously at about age 24 and his high FIDE was 2480.

Considering that GM level is 2500, and his relative youth, don't you think it's unfair to say that he didn't have the talent to get to GM level?

No. In the book, it was obvious he truly wanted to get to GM level. He had all the advantages most kids don't have. Also many GMs didn't have. World class coaches from age six, supportive parents, etc. If he could have made it, he would have.

goldendog
Conflagration_Planet wrote:

No. In the book, it was obvious he truly wanted to get to GM level. He had all the advantages most kids don't have. Also many GMs didn't have. World class coaches from age six, supportive parents, etc. If he could have made it, he would have.

So, your thesis is that he didn't have 20 more rating points in him even if he invested a decade of effort?

Conflagration_Planet
goldendog wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:

No. In the book, it was obvious he truly wanted to get to GM level. He had all the advantages most kids don't have. Also many GMs didn't have. World class coaches from age six, supportive parents, etc. If he could have made it, he would have.

So, your thesis is that he didn't have 20 more rating points in him even if he invested a decade of effort?

Maybe not. His rating had dropped, before he quit. It would have taken more than him just reaching 2500 for him to get the GM title, anyway.

CrimsonKnight7

What does it actually take other than beating GM's which he did BTW ?

Psalm25

How many GMs are there in the world? Isn't it like only 1,000? When you compare the number of GMs to the number of serious chess players, I bet it corresponds to a MLB player or NBA player compares to the number of people who play basketball and baseball seriously.

Some people I think believe becoming a GM isn't that hard cause you're just sitting at a board and thinking and anyone can do that

goldendog

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

CrimsonKnight7

 I don't know him personally, but from all I heard of about him, and from listening to his chessmaster games going through them. I think he would have. Sometimes life throws curveballs at you though. He seems to be a real down to earth, intelligent young man that knows what he wants. So if chess wasn't it, thats his decision. I can respect that.

Atomic_Rift
superking500 wrote:

what ever happened to that guy, the "Serching for Bobby Fischer" he was suppose to be the next big thing in chess.... but his peak rating is on 2480, he never even made it into the 2500, never a grandmaster.... he just kind of fell off the map

He made an awesome chess engine called Chessmaster when he grew up. :)

Conflagration_Planet
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

Atomic_Rift
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

:(

And he was over 2,000 when he was around my age. :(

Atomic_Rift
Atomic_Rift wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

:(

And he was over 2,000 when he was around my age. :(

And drew Kasparov when he was 12!

Ubik42
TetsuoShima wrote:
baddogno wrote:

He's a black belt and coowner of a jui-jitsu studio in NY.  He also won some big tournaments in China.  Doesn't sound like a loser to me.

nah if he were a winner he would have picked Karate, oh god or even Taekwondo as last resort.

Jiu Jitsu so owns either of those two.

Conflagration_Planet
Atomic_Rift wrote:
Atomic_Rift wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

:(

And he was over 2,000 when he was around my age. :(

And drew Kasparov when he was 12!

In a simultaneous game with 58 other kids.

CrimsonKnight7

It sounds to me CP that its more than that. Maybe it wasn't shared by him, but there was definitely more than he just peaked out. I don't know what, but I do know its more than that.

Atomic_Rift
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
Atomic_Rift wrote:
Atomic_Rift wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

:(

And he was over 2,000 when he was around my age. :(

And drew Kasparov when he was 12!

In a simultaneous game with 58 other kids.

Cool!

goldendog
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

You were saying he didn't have the talent.

He quit trying, but that doesn't equal an admission of inadequate talent.

Atomic_Rift
goldendog wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

You were saying he didn't have the talent.

He quit trying, but that doesn't equal an admission of inadequate talent.

What? He had one of the best talents at such a young age! :)

Conflagration_Planet
Atomic_Rift wrote:
goldendog wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

You were saying he didn't have the talent.

He quit trying, but that doesn't equal an admission of inadequate talent.

What? He had one of the best talents at such a young age! :)

Fischer made GM at 15.

Atomic_Rift
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
Atomic_Rift wrote:
goldendog wrote:
Conflagration_Planet wrote:
goldendog wrote:

GM level means at c. GM strength. That begins at 2500, as a requirement for the typical path to the GM title.

It's reasonable to say a young 2480 could get to 2500.

Could he get three norms besides? In the normal course of years of serious application, it's, again, reasonable to say he well might have.

Of course, if one gives up, it becomes impossible, but to say he never could have requires a better crystal ball than I have.

I'll say this once more. In the book, it was obvious he had high hopes of becoming a GM. Unfortunitly, he peaked out before getting there.

You were saying he didn't have the talent.

He quit trying, but that doesn't equal an admission of inadequate talent.

What? He had one of the best talents at such a young age! :)

Fischer made GM at 15.

I know. :)

goldendog

Kasparov was 14 when he was 15.