Forums

Letting the clock run out

Sort:
B-Lamberth

I use Chess.com for blitz for fun but also for training for OTB play in long games. Right now I am just waiting because my opponent decided to let his clock run out with ½ an hour left, because he cannot avoid a mate.
This behaveior is really disrespectful an I wish that kind of oppent could show some honor and resign or move.
I really don´t get it, you should think that a guy going into a 60+ min. game would be a serious player.
Here is the position (opponents name removed):

B-Lamberth

Seems like this sad tactic could almost work for him, because now they are restarting the servers Yell

Irinasdaddy

Online it's kind of a loser move, in real life it serves a real point when it's done as a protest.  

I was at the top table of my group (U1750) in the last round of a club tournament about 5 years ago.  We both had perfect scores going into the last round, and the only way anyone could catch us would be if one other player won and we drew.  We agreed before the game that if he lost or drew quickly, before our game got too uneven, we'd draw and move on.  The other guy lost ridiculously quickly, like in 15 moves, which was very unusual for him.  When we saw what happened, I offered the agreed-upon draw, from an even material and positional standpoint, but my opponent decided to refuse.  

30 moves later I made a small blunder, and ended up having to trade a knight for 2 pawns.  We both moved quickly, however, so we hit the 40/90 time control in such a manner that the 30 minute boost put us both up over an hour.   20 moves after that he finally cracked my defense and was going to win straight up.  I had ~35 minutes left on my clock, so I just packed up my things and left without resigning, forcing him to wait until time ran out to win the game.  He asked where I was going, and I told him I had no respect for a man who went back on his word, and to sit there and think about how much of a man he wasn't while he waited for time to expire.

Next week the TD gave me a tongue-lashing about pulling that stunt, but there was no way I was apologizing, heh.  The other guy didn't show up that month to collect his prize either.  Weird... :-p 

r_k_ting

Irinasdaddy, let me be the one to point it out. What you did was illegal by the laws of chess. Agreeing to a draw due to tournament standings is collusion. This type of cheating is no different from the Boris Ivanov type of cheating.

ponz111

Irinasdaddy  packing up your things and leaving was a mark of a poor sport.

The "agreement" you had with your opponent was vauge in the first place.

Maybe your opponent was winning at the point you first offered a draw?

Did you ever think that your leaving as you did affected other people other than your opponent?  

I am not sure if your first agreement was collusion or not but your behavior afterwards was poor. 

Talfan1

i wonder how much of the game was played after the draw refusal with this niggling you and disturbing your focus?

ponz111

Talfan 1 That is quite an assumption.  For all we know the opponent thought he had an advantage when the draw was refused.  And the terms of the "agreement" was far from clear.

If you are going to walk out on a game and let the clock run out you better have it "nailed" that 1. you are right 2. it will not disturb the other players. 3. It will not mess up the timing of the tournament or delay the results.

2200ismygoal
Irinasdaddy wrote:

Online it's kind of a loser move, in real life it serves a real point when it's done as a protest.  

I was at the top table of my group (U1750) in the last round of a club tournament about 5 years ago.  We both had perfect scores going into the last round, and the only way anyone could catch us would be if one other player won and we drew.  We agreed before the game that if he lost or drew quickly, before our game got too uneven, we'd draw and move on.  The other guy lost ridiculously quickly, like in 15 moves, which was very unusual for him.  When we saw what happened, I offered the agreed-upon draw, from an even material and positional standpoint, but my opponent decided to refuse.  

30 moves later I made a small blunder, and ended up having to trade a knight for 2 pawns.  We both moved quickly, however, so we hit the 40/90 time control in such a manner that the 30 minute boost put us both up over an hour.   20 moves after that he finally cracked my defense and was going to win straight up.  I had ~35 minutes left on my clock, so I just packed up my things and left without resigning, forcing him to wait until time ran out to win the game.  He asked where I was going, and I told him I had no respect for a man who went back on his word, and to sit there and think about how much of a man he wasn't while he waited for time to expire.

Next week the TD gave me a tongue-lashing about pulling that stunt, but there was no way I was apologizing, heh.  The other guy didn't show up that month to collect his prize either.  Weird... :-p 

You can't actually leave the playing hall while your game is in progress without permission from the TD, thats why you have to resign if you want.  I as a TD would also have given you a tongue lashing as well had you pulled that in one of my tournaments.

macer75
r_k_ting wrote:

Irinasdaddy, let me be the one to point it out. What you did was illegal by the laws of chess. Agreeing to a draw due to tournament standings is collusion. This type of cheating is no different from the Boris Ivanov type of cheating.

I don't know what the official rules are on this, but I think of pre-arranged draws as strategy, not cheating. However, I don't like what Irinasdaddy did during the game.

DelayedResponse

No matter what the circumstances, leaving the playing hall without resigning and not informing the TD is UNACCEPTABLE!

ponz111

I would say prearranged draws almost always affect some other player.

Lets say you have 3 out of 4 points after 4 rounds. and two players paired against each other one having 4 out of 4 and one having 3 out of 4 and agree beforehand to a draw.  In that situation you cannot do better than 2rd place.  However if they do not agree to the early draw you have a very good chance to tie for first place.

r_k_ting

It appears that I was wrong, that it's not illegal, but not for the reason you might expect. It's not illegal because nowhere in the FIDE laws of chess is collusion outlawed! But, Irinasdaddy, since you were likely playing in a USCF tournament, you are bound by USCF rules.

20L Manipulating Results.   Collusion to fix or throw games, whether before or during the game, in order to manipulate prize money, title norms, ratings, or for any other purpose is illegal and may result in severe sanctions, including revocation of USCF membership.  Such agreements include arrangements to split prize money no matter what the result of the game.

Note, the law says collusion is illegal for any reason, including Irinasdaddy's reason, to split first place. No exceptions apply because "you are not hurting anyone".

Phantom_of_the_Opera

Irinasdaddy,  Your the meanest person in the world!  I hope I never play chess with you in my life!  Pack up and leave?  Get lost!  flick the king and move on!  Don't be stupid and cheet by pre game draw,  You fool!  I hope you start to lose to 100s and become an average or worse player because that is where your sportsmanship is you rude idiot!

Irjene

calm down i agree letting your time run down is a jerk move no matter what happens

ponz111

Irinasdaddy,  when you pick up  and leave and let the clock run out it can affect the other players, not just your opponent  and the tournament director. 

Did you care if your actions might disturb other players? 

Irinasdaddy
manfredmann wrote:
r_k_ting wrote:

It appears that I was wrong, that it's not illegal, but not for the reason you might expect. It's not illegal because nowhere in the FIDE laws of chess is collusion outlawed! But, Irinasdaddy, since you were likely playing in a USCF tournament, you are bound by USCF rules.

20L Manipulating Results.   Collusion to fix or throw games, whether before or during the game, in order to manipulate prize money, title norms, ratings, or for any other purpose is illegal and may result in severe sanctions, including revocation of USCF membership.  Such agreements include arrangements to split prize money no matter what the result of the game.

Note, the law says collusion is illegal for any reason, including Irinasdaddy's reason, to split first place. No exceptions apply because "you are not hurting anyone".

Thanks r_k.

@irinasdaddy - you are quite easy to identify, so not a great idea to self-incriminate. The TD should have reported you to the USCF.

manfred, I haven't been an active USCF member in years.  I understand the rules, but I also understand the "grandmaster draw", which FIDE has taken steps to alleviate, admittedly.

To be clear, it was a 5 round tournament, we had 4 points apiece going into the last round.  There was only one person with 3.5, the person we were watching, and he was playing someone with 3 points.  At the time, the position was completely even, both in material and in position.  

I fail to see how me leaving affected any other players beyond the one I was against.  No one in my group had anything else to play for, and the open group still had almost all of their boards running.  Was it a dick move?  Absolutely.  When a man goes back on his word he opens himself up to actions like that from me.  You're only as good as your word, and he wasn't any good apparently, so he got treated as a no-good person. 

Irinasdaddy
Phantom_of_the_Opera wrote:

Irinasdaddy,  Your the meanest person in the world!  I hope I never play chess with you in my life!  Pack up and leave?  Get lost!  flick the king and move on!  Don't be stupid and cheet by pre game draw,  You fool!  I hope you start to lose to 100s and become an average or worse player because that is where your sportsmanship is you rude idiot!

*You're, *cheat.

r_k_ting

Irinasdaddy, you have a very unusual sense of "honor". There are so many who have criticized both your collusion and your decision to leave without resigning. You were wrong on both counts. Take the hint, admit your mistakes (your admission need not even be public!), and move on.

ponz111

Irina'sdad, I would like to see that position which was completely even, both in material and position.  Maybe your opponent saw something you did not see?

Your action could affect people playing their game at the time you made your demonstration.  To see someone apparently break the rules and walk out of a game can be disconcerting to those who are still playing and trying to think. 

Now do you see how your actions can affect the other players?

Come on, let's see the position where your opponent would not give you the draw? 

r_k_ting

Also, your post shows a confusion between collusion and "grandmaster draws", which is worrying. If the players say beforehand "Let's play a short draw", that's collusion. Even saying those words is illegal, regardless of what happens later in the game.

On the other hand a GM saying "I would be happy with a draw" to a journalist before the game is allowed. This means you intend to fight for at most a draw against best play by the opponent. "Let's play a short draw" means that you want to pre-arrange the outcome of the game.

In your case, saying "Let's agree to draw if a third party loses so that we share first place" is an offer the fix the outcome of the game and the tournament! This is most definitely collusion, and it matters not how drawish your position over the board turned out to be.