Lyudmil Tsvetkov

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stewardjandstewardj
GWTR wrote:
pretzel2 wrote:
David Smerdon says:

It’s definitely tough going. In general I wouldn’t recommend it for club players looking for a formula or instruction guide on how to improve. The exposition’s just too muddled. But it’s an interesting read from a more scientific point of view. If improvement advice and ready-made heuristics are what you’re after, I’d suggest starting with the Kotov books.

I do not disagree with the points raised in that one paragraph by GM Smerdon.  That is why I chose to buy Human Versus Machine, Part 1.  It is amazing and fun.  LT's annotations really are insightful and educational.

 

As for The Secret of Chess, I wish I had the knowledge and skill to write a chess book that got these kind of comments from a GM:

 

I feel like it would be unwise to ignore his lessons on how to evaluate closed structures, and it would not surprise me if computers tell us exactly the same thing in ten or fifteen years’ time.  

And this goes to the heart of the issue. Whether or not you believe in Tsvetkov’s chess philosophy or even just his evaluations, there’s no question that his approach to chess is fresh and different, something that’s been missing in the chess literature for a long time. I probably won’t end up a convert, but I have definitely spotted several interesting new heuristics that I will be trying out in the future. Concepts such as “vertically isolated pawns”, “twice backward pawns” and “spearhead pawns” are not things that I consciously think about when I analyse, though in a sense they sit somewhere in my chess intuition for assessment. But knowing which of these heuristics are relatively more important than others – a feature that Tsvetkov’s quantifications can address – as well as automatically bringing them into one’s decision processes, might be quite valuable. In any case, I’m going to try it out.  

Unfortunately, the combination of the textbook style without much in the way of descriptions, combined with difficult English, makes The Secret of Chess a really hard read. And given the knee-jerk rejection that many ‘classical’ chess players will feel, there’s a fair chance this book will be largely ignored by the wider chess community. But I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen. I’m almost surely in the minority, but I believe Tsvetkov’s insights could really change the way we think about chess, from how beginners learn the game to how experts improve. It’s bold, completely different and sometimes conflicts with a lot of established chess wisdom, but, just like big data analysis, meditation and veganism, that doesn’t mean there aren't some lessons to be learned, even if you don't subscribe to the whole package. If you're willing to open your mind to a new way of thinking about chess, and you're determined enough to power through the text, this book is definitely worth a read.  

https://www.chess.com/blog/smurfo/the-secret-of-chess

 

How about you?

finally you start to make a little more sense. Although I stil disagree with a lot of the stuff you said. He got attention from a GM and IM cause he actually emailed dozens of them about his book. There was bound to be some to right a review on his book. While it's positive reviews, it's positive reviews. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do agree when you say that it is a fresh and new approach, and while it may not be the approach we need, he may be in the right direction. As of HOW useful it is, all I can say is that it is probably not incredibly useful, but definitely will have at least SOME good information.

I am not planning to read the book anytime soon, but then again, I have not read much more than half of a chess book. If I read it, it is just because I would like to see how useful the book is, and how complicated the English is

hitthepin
Well, GWTR is beating me now. :(
DjonniDerevnja
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
DjonniDerevnja wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

I am impressed that Lyudmil (Mr 1400) successful converted too newbies into his crappy logic!

If I am 1400, you are just 200!

I guess you are one of those players who have got to 2000 online with A LOT of LUCK.

So, a 1800 player who was very very lucky. Happens sometimes.

I am just the opposite: I have been 2200 OTB, with a lot of bad luck, few played games, etc.

Now, I am 500-600 elos stronger, so you should look up to me in awe.

I promise to teach you something, if you buy my book.

 

I am heading towards 2000, Maybe it takes 10 years. And to get there i will use my luck. Human chess is all about luck management. In most games you will have luck. Your opponent makes an inaccurasie. The skill is to spot that lucky thing and punish it, and after that increase the advantage and win the game.  You will not have luck in all games, and when out of luck, nothing to punish. In those games its good to save the draw.

Some people are really luckier than others, believe me.

I am relying on huge luck these days. Thursday in the club championship I was very good in ca 14 moves, my pressure gave me luck and I could have taken 4,5 cp lead, but I wasn't good enough, calculated one move to short and did not pull that tactic. I ended up with an inflated attack, behind on the clock and a long endgame one pawn down.  In move ca 70  luck happened,my opponent stepped wrong, my king crushed trough and I won the game.  

We both made some mistakes, but he was slightly worse and luck made my day happy.png

 

I think luck often is connected with initiative , sound positions and fast development. If you do a lot stuff right, then its more difficult for the opponent and he  is risking more wrong steps, with worse consequences.

Pulpofeira

You can also try some voodoo.

RoobieRoo

Something like this perhaps

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
Madcaf wrote:

Ok, guys, hello everyone! What an interesting read the thread "The Secret of Chess" and this one were. 

I am seriously shocked right now. What do we have? 

 

- Somebody claiming to be better than anyone that has ever lived in chess

- Somebody whose credential is to beat SF in infinite TC against one Minute because giving SF more time would be a waste of his time, he has to analyze too many positions for his next book.

- Somebody who tells us there were only four/five world champions and neglects the rest because they were weak 

- Somebody who has written the only chess book worth reading in the history of chess

- Somebody who tells us even grandmasters wouldn't understand the book he has written

- Somebody who claims his chess prowess would be worth 3500 ELO

- Somebody who plays not OTB because he would not be able to concentrate when he has to think about his opponent

- Somebody who has excuses for any proposed way to prove his strength and ideas to a potential readership

- Somebody who arrogantly insults people who are sceptical of his claims

- Somebody who does not play  online because he gets distracted by people invisibly watching him and also people online cheat with engines. Also he has no time for that.

- Somebody who claims to beat every engine

- Somebody who claims A0 is weak

 

Best thing is - it is all the same person. People, really? There are two possibilities here to explain all that. This guy is either a very dedicated troll who gets his kick by getting attention or he has very serious mental issues. In both cases it would be best to ban him from these forums. There are inexperienced people actually believing him, they should be protected from lies/delusions whatever those claims are. Maybe by doing that help is provided to him, too. How can I report individual posts to a mod, btw?

 

It is not by chance that your avatar is of the BAD Darth Sidius, rigth?

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
pretzel2 wrote:
David Smerdon says:

It’s definitely tough going. In general I wouldn’t recommend it for club players looking for a formula or instruction guide on how to improve. The exposition’s just too muddled. But it’s an interesting read from a more scientific point of view. If improvement advice and ready-made heuristics are what you’re after, I’d suggest starting with the Kotov books.

What a LIAR you are!!!

Smerdon has NEVER said that.

Here his review: https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-secret-of-chess

You are all arrogant, destructive liars.

I have spent 5 years of my life on this, 16/7

And I deserve some reward for this enormous sacrifice.

 

Psychamok
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
pretzel2 wrote:
David Smerdon says:

It’s definitely tough going. In general I wouldn’t recommend it for club players looking for a formula or instruction guide on how to improve. The exposition’s just too muddled. But it’s an interesting read from a more scientific point of view. If improvement advice and ready-made heuristics are what you’re after, I’d suggest starting with the Kotov books.

What a LIAR you are!!!

Smerdon has NEVER said that.

Here his review: https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-secret-of-chess

You are all arrogant, destructive liars.

I have spent 5 years of my life on this, 16/7

And I deserve some reward for this enormous sacrifice.

 

Lyudmil, why don't you do some searching? He literally says it HERE!

http://davidsmerdon.com/?p=1970

At the bottom in the comments, how can you call someone a liar now? It's right there.

 

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
prusswan wrote:

Even among chessplayers there are people who are incredibly stupid... so Tsvetkov discovered an untapped market for himself: writing chess books for the stupid chess audience

My stupid chess audience are all University professors, engineers and the like.

I suggest Darth Sidius be banned from this site.

All Darth Vader's and the like can bring is DESTRUCTION.

This is written for intelligent people, not for ignorants: https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Chess-Lyudmil-Tsvetkov/dp/1522041400#reader_1522041400

Psychamok

Do accept that pretzel2 is not a liar now after being shown that Smerdon said that?

Psychamok

http://davidsmerdon.com/?p=1970

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
pretzel2 wrote:

so far, i've only seen assertions that he was a career bulgarian diplomat. but this is just a 5 min google. 

How can you be so impudent: https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Lyudmil+Tsvetkov#cite_note-1 ?

Psychamok
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
pretzel2 wrote:

so far, i've only seen assertions that he was a career bulgarian diplomat. but this is just a 5 min google. 

How can you be so impudent: https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Lyudmil+Tsvetkov#cite_note-1 ?

What about you? He just told you a truth that Smerdon said and you called him a liar.

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Ezio, I have read Smerdon's review MANY times, and he never mentions Kotov or muddled up.

So, he simply made his own compilation.

Is not that cheating?

Yes, I say NM Pretzel is a LIAR.

He wants to run to the ground my 5-year colossal efforts, for which I got nothing.

He never mentions club players, Kotov and muddled up, so you are all liars!

I am appalled.

I wish destiny comes upon you too.

Soon.

Besides, the review is from December 3rd, not January 3rd.

Psychamok
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

Ezio, I have read Smerdon's review MANY times, and he never mentions Kotov or muddled up.

So, he simply made his own compilation.

Is not that cheating?

Yes, I say NM Pretzel is a LIAR.

He wants to run to the ground my 5-year colossal efforts, for which I got nothing.

He never mentions club players, Kotov and muddled up, so you are all liars!

I am appalled.

I wish destiny comes upon you too.

Soon.

Besides, the review is from December 3rd, not January 3rd.

Can you either not read or not follow instructions? In the link I sent, he says it in the comments. You're extremely stubborn and foolish. It's the comment about Kotov etc that's from January 3rd

At the bottom of this http://davidsmerdon.com/?p=1970

Even after seeing it are you still not wanting to admit that Smerdon said that in his comments in response to Peter Ballard's question?

Perhaps it's time to get David Smerdon here to this thread to confirm he said that, maybe that will convince you if it's too hard to find that comment at the bottom, after all there's 3 whole comments to search through,

Psychamok

 Don't really see how you can ignore that when it's there in black and white.

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Oh, you mean he said it in the comments, I just saw it, so what?

There is also a comment like this:

Where this book could be useful, is giving hard numbers to positional evaluation. Of course I know a rook is worth 5 pawns and knight is worth 3 pawns, so I won’t go swapping my rook for a knight without good reason. But in positional chess (where I think I’m rather poor, relative to 1900-ish rating), I have no good way to evaluate. I know to avoid backward pawns, isolated pawns, bad bishops, etc, but what I don’t know is how to put a value on them.

Imagine if I’m consider swapping a knight for my rook, and I think “Hmm, rooks are pretty good… but knights are pretty good too. I wonder which is better? I think in this position a knight might be better”… but that’s pretty well how I evaluate a positional decision! So if I had a set of not-too-hard-to-remember points values for positional evaluation, it would add some system to my positional chess.

Does this book provide a usable set of points values? Judging from your review, it sounds like it’s too complex a set of rules for hacks like me. But who knows?

Different people, different comments in different situations.

So, Smerdon acknowledges the books is of scientific interest.

Did not you doubt the science of the book too?

Everything could be adapted for learning purposes.

Should I have written the same book 100 other chess authors have written?

With what this book would be interesting then?

Should I have been ubtrue to the real nature of chess knowledge, which is largely numerical in value, considering imbalances?

I could have made it much simpler, by dropping the tables and saying just good or bad instead of attaching numbers, but who would such a book serve?

It would be plain, imprecise and repetitive.

Why do that?

When I finish the second volume, it will read easily, what will you say then, as this will be just commented example games?

The volume will fully explain the dark spots to some readers, but that will not make the numerical values less relevant.

So, I don't see what you are complaining about: you have the most advanced chess manual, that could be easily adapted to all purposes.

If people read the definitions and logical explanations more carefully, they could very well do without even example games, but some people are simply lazy.

You want perfect knowledge and very simple, well, there are no perfect things, if you want good knowledge, you will have to do some effort to understand the meaning.

Madcaf
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov hat geschrieben:
Madcaf wrote:

Ok, guys, hello everyone! What an interesting read the thread "The Secret of Chess" and this one were. 

I am seriously shocked right now. What do we have? 

 

- Somebody claiming to be better than anyone that has ever lived in chess

- Somebody whose credential is to beat SF in infinite TC against one Minute because giving SF more time would be a waste of his time, he has to analyze too many positions for his next book.

- Somebody who tells us there were only four/five world champions and neglects the rest because they were weak 

- Somebody who has written the only chess book worth reading in the history of chess

- Somebody who tells us even grandmasters wouldn't understand the book he has written

- Somebody who claims his chess prowess would be worth 3500 ELO

- Somebody who plays not OTB because he would not be able to concentrate when he has to think about his opponent

- Somebody who has excuses for any proposed way to prove his strength and ideas to a potential readership

- Somebody who arrogantly insults people who are sceptical of his claims

- Somebody who does not play  online because he gets distracted by people invisibly watching him and also people online cheat with engines. Also he has no time for that.

- Somebody who claims to beat every engine

- Somebody who claims A0 is weak

 

Best thing is - it is all the same person. People, really? There are two possibilities here to explain all that. This guy is either a very dedicated troll who gets his kick by getting attention or he has very serious mental issues. In both cases it would be best to ban him from these forums. There are inexperienced people actually believing him, they should be protected from lies/delusions whatever those claims are. Maybe by doing that help is provided to him, too. How can I report individual posts to a mod, btw?

 

It is not by chance that your avatar is of the BAD Darth Sidius, rigth?

 

Exactly as it is not by chance that you chose to evade any possibility of proving your outrageous and rather stupid and selfcontradictory claims. I quote my original post for the world to see how  you react to anybody pointing out that what you say makes no sense. In the future I will ignore any comment directed at me if it shows abscence of reason but I will maybe call you out for claims you make about yourself that are yet to be proven if they are as ridiculous as the above ones in order to warn inexperienced people that you try to lie to them or scam them into buying your book. I will refrain from that in order to not unnessecarily feed either the troll that you are or manifest your delusions to protect you from needing a mental assylum soon. I will appreciate a "thank you" for that even though it is not needed.

Psychamok
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

Oh, you mean he said it in the comments, I just saw it, so what?

There is also a comment like this:

Where this book could be useful, is giving hard numbers to positional evaluation. Of course I know a rook is worth 5 pawns and knight is worth 3 pawns, so I won’t go swapping my rook for a knight without good reason. But in positional chess (where I think I’m rather poor, relative to 1900-ish rating), I have no good way to evaluate. I know to avoid backward pawns, isolated pawns, bad bishops, etc, but what I don’t know is how to put a value on them.

Imagine if I’m consider swapping a knight for my rook, and I think “Hmm, rooks are pretty good… but knights are pretty good too. I wonder which is better? I think in this position a knight might be better”… but that’s pretty well how I evaluate a positional decision! So if I had a set of not-too-hard-to-remember points values for positional evaluation, it would add some system to my positional chess.

Does this book provide a usable set of points values? Judging from your review, it sounds like it’s too complex a set of rules for hacks like me. But who knows?

Different people, different comments in different situations.

So, Smerdon acknowledges the books is of scientific interest.

Did not you doubt the science of the book too?

Everything could be adapted for learning purposes.

Should I have written the same book 100 other chess authors have written?

With what this book would be interesting then?

Should I have been ubtrue to the real nature of chess knowledge, which is largely numerical in value, considering imbalances?

I could have made it much simpler, by dropping the tables and saying just good or bad instead of attaching numbers, but who would such a book serve?

It would be plain, imprecise and repetitive.

Why do that?

When I finish the second volume, it will read easily, what will you say then, as this will be just commented example games?

The volume will fully explain the dark spots to some readers, but that will not make the numerical values less relevant.

So, I don't see what you are complaining about: you have the most advanced chess manual, that could be easily adapted to all purposes.

If people read the definitions and logical explanations more carefully, they could very well do without even example games, but some people are simply lazy.

You want perfect knowledge and very simple, well, there are no perfect things, if you want good knowledge, you will have to do some effort to understand the meaning.

Will it read easily, do you think? Will Smerdon change his opinion and say that club players should start buying your book instead of Kotov's? Because he's certainly not saying that right now.

ScootaChess

All I'm seeing are a bunch of technocrat shills who want to diminish and even falsify the claims of Tsvetkov because they would rather let humanity die for the sake of "progress" than admit that its a bad idea to let machines do all the thinking.