Maggy-Fabso Drawternity - keep telling yourself it's interesting...

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Avatar of themaskedbishop

...because it isn't, and it's a klaxon call to FIDE that it's time to end classic time controls. Just like those big old shopping malls that are empty, no-one wants to pay attention to this kind of chess anymore. 

Except YOU of course. You think it's just great, all these endless draws. You think it's "true" chess and filled with learning experiences. You revel in listening to Nakamura chew hours of video-feed trying to earn his keep by making it interesting. Well, YOU are a member of an extremely shrinking group of people. And YOU are the reason chess continues to trail behind curling, bridge, and penny pitch as an organized sport capable of drawing any mainstream interest. 

SOLUTION: G/90. No delays.  No "added seconds to the clock." Just...G90. That's a three-hour game, the same length as an American football game, and if one of these two maroons can't pull off a win in that kind of tighter time control - well then maybe we really DO need to embrace the grim alleyways of Seirawan chess. 

--TMB

Avatar of Bishop_g5

All these endless draws are not a project of a perfect gameplay from both sides. Classical chess its a different game very few Master level players can understand...Nakamura included.

From a viewers eye, it misses the " Showtime " a least longer time control match would have but at the same moment, it shows how complex and difficult for humans chess can be even if time considering a position is endless. 

I agree with you that G/90 will make it more attractive to follow and we will see more wrong decisions from players but that's not the case...of a World Championship match neither what Classical chess is meant to be.

Players must have the time needed to search in depth even what they follow is a...Ghost. happy.png

Avatar of themaskedbishop

This notion that "classical chess" requires enormous time controls needs a rethink.  Why not give each player 8 hours? What's so magic about what they have now? Show me the proof the Gary Kasparov needed "classical" time controls to dominate his opposition. 

 

--TMB

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Avatar of Scottrf

Making the world championship quick time controls isn't going to put it on ESPN. It's just going to turn off the core audience.

Chess will never be mainstream. Stop looking for a 'solution'.

Avatar of varelse1

Who are you trying to convince this is boring?

And why haven't they gotten the message, in the last 40 threads?

Avatar of themaskedbishop

I'm not trying to convince YOU. Clearly you are fine with it. Cool, revel in the draws, but ten bucks say you never revisit these games in your future study. My point is we are reaching draw death with World Champion chess, and it's time too look at some options. Do YOU have any?

 

Avatar of Bishop_g5
themaskedbishop wrote:

This notion that "classical chess" requires enormous time controls needs a rethink.  Why not give each player 8 hours? What's so magic about what they have now? Show me the proof the Gary Kasparov needed "classical" time controls to dominate his opposition. 

 

--TMB

 
 The problem is not time controls. See the last game played: It was the quickest ever in WCC that lasted less than 2 hours. Classical chess is dying from computer preparation, not the huge time controls. If players are prepared well to take decisions without thinking much, then time controls are irrelevant. Carlsen with Black's plays intentionally the Sveshnikov Sicilian to take the game in uncharted territory where Caruana has to think for himself, so to avoid preparation.
There you will see them both spend half an hour or 20 minutes each for consecutive moves because of the implications are complex and require concrete analysis.  Even so, Caruana couldn't find the best approach. Players must have so much time for occasions like this one. That is the Classical chess time controls differs from others. If a player could find the best consecutive moves to gain an advantage in a complex middlegame position can be done only in these time controls, nowhere else. 
Did you see the Kasparov vs Karpov match back in 1990?
Show me a game that lasted less than 3-4 hours.

 

Avatar of pfren

Whoever thinks it's boring can ask his money back.

Avatar of themaskedbishop

pfren, can I have my money back?

Avatar of themaskedbishop

.

Avatar of themaskedbishop

>Classical chess is dying from computer preparation, not the huge time controls. <

An interesting point. But since we can't stop computer preparation, we should look at the time allocations.  The better players won't need as much time.  

Avatar of Bishop_g5
themaskedbishop wrote:

>Classical chess is dying from computer preparation, not the huge time controls. <

An interesting point. But since we can't stop computer preparation, we should look at the time allocations.  The better players won't need as much time.  

 

 You are missing the point. Positions require more time to think, not the better or worst players.

Do you want to travel back in time to see how many times Garry Kasparov spent 20 minutes and half an hour thinking a position in a classical time control chess game?

Giving a player the ability-potential to think a position more you increase the chances for him to play better but that's not enough to make him play like a computer. We didn't reach the moment where classical chess time controls make Carlsen and Caruana play like Stockfish. They play bad moves and its a matter of character-psychology and style of play more than precise calculation if we will see a more interesting game.

Carlsen so far was gambling with Blacks in the Sveshnikov but Caruana didn't take the risk. Someone else would have taken that...perhaps! Outside the board, it's easy for everyone to claim he takes risks or plays aggressively.

It's the WCC final match. Psychology plays an important factor.

We can't judge the Classical chess time control's and their effect on the game results when this match is a lot more than that!!  

I have the suspicion that if we have made this final match in G90 time controls we will have see the same exact games. 11 D

Avatar of gingerninja2003

I think the game amount should be increased to 16 games (but no more), only because I see it unreasonable that the candidates tournament contains more games than the world chess championship. 

The thing with this WCC is that although Carlsen is playing for a win in the games, he can afford to come out of it equal. Caruana is simply not strong enough to break Carlsen.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Scottrf wrote:

Making the world championship quick time controls isn't going to put it on ESPN. It's just going to turn off the core audience.

Chess will never be mainstream. Stop looking for a 'solution'.

When you say core audience do you mean the 400 people that are in attendance at the world chess championship? I think everyone knows chess will never be mainstream, because it's way too boring for most people. But I dont see any reason why it should be losing popularity either, other than stubbornness. 

Of course chess will never be on ESPN because it's not a sport, but if it were more interesting, it would appeal to more people. I think there should be two different events. Regular chess where they play15 or 20 long time control games, and if there is a tie, keep doing that until someone wins. And then a different event where it's all short time controls. I dont understand why they would mix the two.

Avatar of Scottrf
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Scottrf wrote:

Making the world championship quick time controls isn't going to put it on ESPN. It's just going to turn off the core audience.

Chess will never be mainstream. Stop looking for a 'solution'.

When you say core audience do you mean the 400 people that are in attendance at the world chess championship? I think everyone knows chess will never be mainstream, because it's way too boring for most people. But I dont see any reason why it should be losing popularity either, other than stubbornness. 

Of course chess will never be on ESPN because it's not a sport, but if it were more interesting, it would appeal to more people. I think there should be two different events. Regular chess where they play15 or 20 long time control games, and if there is a tie, keep doing that until someone wins. And then a different event where it's all short time controls. I dont understand why they would mix the two.

 

400 people paying the prices they are charging to watch something that is no more exciting in person than on a laptop seems like a success.

No the core audience is following at home.

Avatar of themaskedbishop

Hey Pfren...after Game 12, now I REALLY want my money back. 

Avatar of lfPatriotGames

Well at least now it will be worth watching. I haven't watched ANY of it so far, for obvious reasons. I look at it this way, games 1 through 12 were probably like watching paint dry on a warehouse. The tie breakers will be like watching a graffiti artist spray paint. Might not be what everyone wants, but definitely more interesting. 

Avatar of Scottrf

If you want something worth watching, Hikaru is about to play puzzle rush:

https://www.twitch.tv/gmhikaru

Avatar of themaskedbishop
This last game was good and there was a real chance for Carlsen to win. Fabio was in time trouble as well. Then Carlsen craps out. What a terrible sport he is, and what a poor leader for our game. BOO.