Millionare Chess Tournament in Las Vegas at October 2014

@Smyslovfan

The risk is being borne by Millionare Chess, LLC, a company incorporated to organize the tournament.  According to the information that I can find, Amy Lee is funding the company.  Her liability is limited to the amount of money that she has provided to the company.  The question is:  If there aren't enoough entrants to cover the costs, will Amy provide additional capital, or will the company go into bankruptcy?

It's no different from any other business venture.

I already ranted about it, but : who cares about the fees ? What's important is the prize/fee ratio, and it looks within the standard tournament norm (not much lower, neither much higher, if a sizeable number of players take part).

Yes, a $1000 entry is effectively barring poor people from coming, so what ? A $10 entry is barring very poor people from coming because of the loss of time and money. Chess is a game for the rich.

Now for the payout ratio calculations, the problem is what you mean by that. Total prize fund / personal entry is not a good measure : payout ratio means in my book total prize fund / sum of all entry fees.

Imagine I hold two tournaments with $1 entry in both, and a single prize section ; tournament A has a single prize of $10 for the winner, but is limited to ten participants, while tournament B has $10, $5 and $2 prizes for the top 3 but has a hundred participants. B has a higher "payout ratio" as calculated by MC's norm, but if you go there for the money A is your choice assuming the strength in the same in both tournaments. (If you don't see why, consider the case where there are only two players allowed in A, whereas a billion players are competing for B).

You can't blame them for shielding themselves from personal bankruptcy risks, can you ?

Now of course the prize fund guarantee is only worth their word, but that claim might attract more players, which in turn guarantees the prize fund.

@Irontiger

I agree with you.  Payout ratio should be the amount returned to the players vs. the total amount of entry fees.  The payout ratio should be less than one as the entry fees pay for the prize fund and the operating costs.  However, people will manipulate numbers to suit their purposes.

@Irontiger

It's a common business practice to create a straw corporation to handle events like the MC Open.  It would be unwise to risk your personal assets in such a venture.

@rdecredico, let me revisit your points and give my views on this.

 1. It sets too high an entrance fee and eliminates the majority of players thus creating a 'Gilded' event instead of one that is egalitarian and truly an "open' event.

It is already creating an us v. them/ have v have-nots mentality, as seen in this thread.  That is not good for chess, and may even be detrimental for future events.

My view: Its a high stake chess tournament. Low entry fee would make it like any other event. You have seen the explanation of some of the folks in this on the prize payout ratio as well as from the organizers, I think that suffices to justify this point. Unfortunately it will be a barrier for some people, but they are not the investors' target market.

"Us vs them" and "has vs has not" mentality is always there. There will be differences in opinion. It comes with democracy, why is that bad? If you dont like, just dont respond or dont give much importance. How is that important in the context of chess?

2.  The real and only people that stand to profit are the organizers.  If their projected set of numbers is close then they will gain tremendously and in such proportions to be significantly out of balance in the relationship they pretend to care about.  

This is troubling because they are pimping the idea that the player here comes first when a quick crunch of the numbers reveals that the organizers come first and there really is no second. 

Rather disingenuous marketing.

My view: Its an LLC, its a business. They may gain but at the same time, if you read the posts, you will see majority of the people here are saying they will loose huge money. So its a risk that the investors are willing to take. Why you or I may have problem with that? As long as we are benefitted, do you ahve problem with their benefits? It should be a win-win situation to make it sustainable in the long run.

3. The sets of rules being instituted have been done so without regard to or soliciting the players themselves.

My view: One of the 2 partners in this company is a Grand Master of Chess. He understands the chess worlds better than many of us. I would definitely take his opinion more seriously than any other random chess fan. The sets of rules are going to attract media and many players while may also push away some other players (drawish players should I say?). If you dont like his chess philosophy where he wants chess to go, then I have to say - Just take it or leave it. 

4.  The venue is NOT conducive to chess, despite it being pimped as such.  The hotel, which was constructed as The Aladin, is a mess and not one of the premier joints on the strip and is instead rather a laughing stock among the industry there.     Claiming that any event in Vegas is 'family friendly' is silly unless that family in question is already all adults.

My view: Correct me if I am wrong but Las Vegas is the 2nd best tourrist attraction in USA. Its definitely a very fitting place to hold high stake tournaments. I played in December North American Open in Bally's, Las Vegas - do you say they should also have hold that tournament somewhere else? The event is anyway not targetted for scholastic chess market. There are lots of great scholastic tournaments already held in USA - this one lets spair for players like me - a tournament with some potential to win big.

5. Funding tournmants by the participants is not going to change a damn thing for anyone in the chess world except to line the pockets of the organizers.   Mathematically, the events run by CCA (such as the World Open) already provide a higher yield to entry fee ratio for players that win prizes than does this event.

My view: So you sit on your hands? I do too because I am not capable of taking a mega initiative like this. But when someone is making an effort, I am capable of making my own contribution to support it as much as I can. I would expect, as a chess player - even if you believe its going to be a failed venture - whole heartedly support tournaments like this. May be you arleady support, but I am just telling to emphasize.

6. The naming of the event is itself groslly misleading.  No one is going to win a million dollars (except the organizers!) 
I posit this event will not do anything to make chess better for anyone once the event is over.  
It will not herarld a new age of high level money tournaments in the USA.

My view: Do you have a better offer to make? Are you afraid of false hope? Big things come from small start. You are under estimating the potential. For get about the name. While you think the name is unjustified, I say if the total amount of prize guaranteed is worth 1 million dollar then its a million dollar tournament. They dont say in the name as "Millionaire First Prize Chess Open". So, its upto you whether you want to see the glass half empty or hal full. You dont believe on their mission. But some others do. You predict that these "some others" are not too in many in number. But if its enough in number - the profile of chess will start picking up. It will progress from low budget game to high stake game. Not in a day or year - but it wlll be the start... or who knows it probably already started!

lol that is a little bit off-topic? Chess and sex doesn´t  really go hand in hand, but poker on the other hand! Anyways, I can´t visualise how chess is going to become more popular because of MC. There were a lot of viewers following the wcc last year between carlsen-anand but almost all of them have dissapeared, e.g. the chess streamers on twitch.tv barely get any viewers at all. The only exception was when chessnetwork streamed wcc and he usually got more than 10k viewers.

Ha!  That explains all the Rolls Royces and Ferraris at the chess tournaments I frequent.  I wonder why, though, all the parents of the scholastic players seem to pack food, though?  Must be strict diets that can't be accomodated by restaurants.

Well, we all know the rich are eccentric. Have you seen what those parents pack for their kids? I've seen heart-shaped PBJ sandwiches and all sorts of designer goodies that their personal staff had made by hand. Clearly, these people have gobs of money to throw at their kids' chess careers.

It's time to make money...think about it. Never played a USCF tournament before? Join some chess club and play some casual games to get a nice 1000 rating. Play on some weekends when you are bored. Drink alcohol and be merry. Who cares about the result. Losing is winning! Come back to the live chess here to keep yourself sharp at around 2000 rating though. Do it a few times, become a sleeper. Nobody will know if you are good at being drunk :) Do the math... a few weekends where everyone thinks the local drunk is playing, plus a few entry fees... spend $1000 over 5 years maximum for entry fees, travel and food. Be a nice sleeper. Get ready for Vegas and the Under 1200 section :)

Let's start sandbagging now for the 2020 event ! XD XD

munterizer wow, you're very optimistic that MC will be around for a long time to come. Finally a hater who is also a supporter.

Of course a sandbagger won't have that much patience to invest for what he might get after 5 years! I guess we don't need to be concerned about such these particular category of sandbaggers. I think if you have to worry, worry about someone who might try to go 1 section down (not multiple sections, as mathematically it will take years of patience). And guys, just because a few players will try to to sandbag a section down (and very likely won't get the fruit out of it, but let's say they will get the fruit for the sake of debate), just because of this you think you not play in this big tournament. It doesn't sound logical. You are assuming that there are hundreds of sandbaggers waiting there. Not really. Most chess players are really nice guys and only a small portion of the, are bad! Are you guys so afraid of these few sandbaggers or cheaters that your love for the game of chess don't count over it? After all, the tournament is a forward looking step for taking chess at a more professional route....

munterizer wrote:

It's time to make money...think about it. Never played a USCF tournament before? Join some chess club and play some casual games to get a nice 1000 rating. Play on some weekends when you are bored. Drink alcohol and be merry. Who cares about the result. Losing is winning! Come back to the live chess here to keep yourself sharp at around 2000 rating though. Do it a few times, become a sleeper. Nobody will know if you are good at being drunk :) Do the math... a few weekends where everyone thinks the local drunk is playing, plus a few entry fees... spend $1000 over 5 years maximum for entry fees, travel and food. Be a nice sleeper. Get ready for Vegas and the Under 1200 section :)

Let's start sandbagging now for the 2020 event ! XD XD

Now time for some positive points. I believe chess tournaments with high prize money will be very welcomes by chess players accross the country. Here is a brief analysis I made on this -

http://dragonbishop.blogspot.com/2014/05/why-is-high-stake-chess-tournament-like.html

Why is a high stake chess tournament like Millionaire Chess Open good for Chess in USA?

Since the announcement last December of Millionaire Chess Open, there has been lots of buzz around. I myself have rode the tide and tried to follow the trends on this. Definitely there are lots of doubts about whether such a high stake chess tournament is feasible to organize at all. One question of the many were - are such high stake chess tournaments going to be good for Chess or Chess in USA? While the answer may sound obviously Yes, I have paid attention to the naysayers as well. It was one of the points on my post around the skepticism of Millionaire Chess Open tournament.

Today I want to share with you why I think high stake chess tournaments are good for chess in USA and for chess in general. Consider myself as a regular slightly above average strength chess player who spends approximately 10 hours a week on Chess (including tournament play). I guess my case will resemble many other regular chess fans in the country and help you come to a conclusion yourself.

When I participate in chess tournaments around Northern California and occasionally drive or fly out of town to join one, I see that my entry fee and expense vs the reward that I get has a high negative balance. For example a 2 day chess tournament of 20,000 USD prize money has an entry fee of $120 in under 1800, 2000 and 2200 sections (these are the sections I have played in last 3 years). Lets say its within my neighboring town (no hotel cost); then the food and gas cost for 2 days are $50. So the minimum costing comes out to be $170.

Now if you look at the prize money in Under 2000 section, its $2000-$1000-$500-$200-$125. Now you can imagine that the 4th and 5th prizes are going to only barely cover your expenses. To get some profit you will need to be in the top 3 performers in that section. Lets say the section will have around 80 people. So while mathematically you only have a 5% chance to be one of the top 3 performers, in practice the chance is higher than that because there will be people playing up from lower sections against whom your odds are higher. Lets assume you have a 20% chance of grabbing one of the top 3 prizes. That means every 1 out of 5 tournaments you will get that prize. We can average out the prize as (2000+1000+500) / 3 ~= $1200 (approximately). So lets say in 6 months you play such 5 tournaments and get $1200. Your costing is 5 * $170 = $850. So end of the day in half a year you actually get rewarded about $400 to $500 for playing competitive chess, averaging less than $100 per month. I don't know about you, but often in such tournaments, i pay a $100 just for a dinner or even less than the amount of money I spend per month to buy chess books or DVDs. Now on top of it add to tournaments where you had to fly out or drive out. Those are purely a loss in terms of money. But you enjoy the travel and can make it a chess vacation. For example, last December I won $2000 in National Open at Las Vegas but when I calculated, my overall expense was approx $4000 as my family was with me (and my son also played) and we spent on other non chess staffs too. So in other words, I will say, out of town chess tournaments, we don't need to go unless we can take it as a chess vacation. At least that's the situation right now.

High stake chess tournaments like Millionaire Chess is going to change this scenario. You are not likely to get the first 3/4 spots of your sections easily. But once you get, only once, will cover up your years of expenses on chess at once. I would say other than Millionaire Chess, it should b true for World Open, Chicago Open, National Open in Last Vegas etc other tournaments too contribute to and are eligible for being counted as high stake chess tournaments (relatively speaking as most other tournaments have only $2000 or less as section first prize where 3rd prize is probably around $500).

Once MC entered the market of high stake, we are looking forward to other organizers trying to be competitive. Of course they can't do it overnight, but it will be a motion started. At least that's the hope. Number of chess players in USA and across the world, will keep increasing thanks to the advent of internet. Remember that Chess is the largest benefitted sport / game that could easily take advantage of internet. Lets support this forward motion and be part of it.

If this is supposed to create interest in US chess, what is the draw? A million dollar total purse isn't exactly interesting in and of itself, especially given a top prize of 200K... a small fraction of what is awarded at a major poker tournament. It is far from dazzling. 

The players? To the non chess-playing US public, there really are no active famous players to begin with, but at least having some top ten players gives a hook. As it stands, this tournament isn't exactly shaping up to be able to claim much status as a true world class event. 

I mean, the World Championship match features way more money, a clear hook as to quality, and it goes unnoticed here. Why is some tournament featuring way less money, and far lesser players going to spark any interest?

I really don't see it... I

i expect a few 2700+ will play... maybe so or adams... but idk if any of the top 14 will play... would be cool if they did though.  i expect the open section will be pretty tough... here's hoping and actually studying so I can score an upset or few.  hopefully number of entries pick up before july 31st... but i guess we'll see then who will play.

Hi Petrosianic,

For Adams you are refering to Michael Adams, right?

I think that So could go, given that he lives in the US.

Question.  Do you like the idea of this being held in Las Vegas?  There is a part of me thinks that having in this city cheapens the event. Do I understand that the city has plenty of hotels, restaurants, and other attractions? I think the thought behind is noble enough trying to bring more attention to chess but I guess that any GM rated over 2700 will more than likely win the tournament.  

I'm sorry if the question has been answered but why aren't any of the top players playing?

michael adams lives part of the year in the US, in florida, AFAIK.  plus he's played in major us open tournaments before.  but mid-october... there will be conflicts for some people with work, school etc.

by top players if you mean Nakamura or Fabiano or Aronian et al then their calendar schedule wont work with MC team's open section budget. But I am expecting people just outside top 10 may register for the tournament if their calendar matches. The must calculate and be certain that they have avery good chance of being in the top 2/3 places as in open section the first 3 prizes can only handle their expenses - 100k, 50k and 25k. They may make a smart move by registering just 2/3 days before the tournament starts by seeing who else are the highest rated palyers playing. Right now the top rated is GM Aleksandr Lenderman – 2679.