We can’t definitively say Hans cheated. FIDE certainly has some things to think about. Magnus has a right to be angry. A little German teen i have never heard of just comes and beats him, the best in the world. Hans has admitted to cheating before. Magnus’ complaint is not unwarranted. But we need rock hard evidence before we can rush to judgment
"Most incriminating evidence that Hans cheated" video
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Sep 28, 2022
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#43
Still nobody has answered my question... how commonly do other players get 100's on individual games.
Sep 28, 2022
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#44
#46: In GM matches, very rarely. Apart from Niemann's 100's, I'm aware of one other case which has been found. I wouldn't be surprised if there's one or two more waiting to be discovered.
Sep 28, 2022
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#45
Kotshmot wrote:
To my understanding engine correlation compares the moves with multiple engines.
That fails to explain why I found 85% in a game that gambit-man found 100%.
I ran all eight games that are alleged to have 100% and only found that result in one. The moves in that game were pretty easy to guess. Most were quite obvious. After the opening, there were maybe three moves where I might have chosen a different move from Niemann’s seat.
Sep 28, 2022
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#46
Knights_of_Doom wrote:
Still nobody has answered my question... how commonly do other players get 100's on individual games.
I'll tell you this
Bobby Fischer never did it.
Not once.
Such statistics should be performed on a large amount of players before exposing conclusions.
Sep 28, 2022
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#48
I think it would be great if someone could spend some time on Chessbase with Niemann's 100% games, and by a process of elimination find out if the move correlation is randomly to a range of engines, or if we have games that align perfectly with, for example, an earlier version of Rybka or Fritz or whatever. If Niemann's moves in a game all correlate with the top move of only one engine that would be a pretty convincing indication that he's used that engine. Even if there's only two or three engines in the correlation, that would strongly suggest the possibility that an accomplice was consulting those engines.
The problem with that is he doesn't really even need to be fed moves to gain a significant advantage. He could just be getting the eval. I'm interested to see how this shakes out but another problem is that he's likely a genuinely strong GM without cheating, if not 2700 level and he has a genuinely strong GM as a teacher/coach that was caught cheating OTB. There isn't really any concrete evidence that he has cheated OTB but this will be a wild ride no matter what happens, that we can be sure of.
Sep 28, 2022
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#50
If there are games that correlate 100% with only 1 or 2 engines, it would be hard to escape the conclusion that actual moves were being fed.
My point is that there probably won't be. If he is cheating then he's likely only receiving the eval and/or key moves in critical positions.
SaturnianMan wrote:
Why aren't people stating the obvious? Anyone who has ever worked with Stockfish to analyze endgames should know Niemann is a POS. To achieve 100% correlation 10 times in 5 consecutive tournaments after (and I'll be generous) 15 moves of OTB Chess is actually humanly impossible, just based on what we know from engine parameters. Human mind can not execute endgames with 100% accuracy. The kid's a worm and should be treated accordingly. C'mon, guys!
stop spreading false information. Niemann did not have 100% correlation with stockfisch 10 times in 5 tournaments.
do you really think if that was true that FIDE would not have banned him already?
do you think Magnus would call him a cheat without further evidence if he could just state the correlation and have Niemann banned pretty much immediately?
the dunning krueger in full flow here...
@GMahatma
Remember, Hans admitted to cheating when he was younger. Also, his mentor Maxim Dlugy is also a known cheater in 2017 and 2020. Just throwing that out there.
snoozyman wrote:
@GMahatma
Remember, Hans admitted to cheating when he was younger. Also, his mentor Maxim Dlugy is also a known cheater in 2017 and 2020. Just throwing that out there.
many people have cheated as minors, we are not hunting them like Hans. And it's not like Dlugy has been working with Hans all this time neither.
Look, if I were to bet money, I'd lean towards Hans cheating as well. The problem is, people keep repeating the same fake proof and ignore the fact that even their leader in this case, Magnus, obviously does not think Hans cheated in a way similar to Ivanov or Feller as he would have been caught already in this case. Which means the real problem according to Magnus is not cheating in and by itself, but the fact that it has gotten so sophisticated that we're not really capable of detecting it yet.
HANS CHEATED
Looks like we've got ourselves a Chess romance.