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"Most incriminating evidence that Hans cheated" video

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Kotshmot
GMahatma wrote:
Kotshmot wrote: IronSteam1 wrote:

From my (shaky) understanding, Regan did a statistical analysis of a much larger sample of Niemann's games.

But the discussed games occurred in a very small sample (a 5-tournament period, in which Niemann achieved those controversial results).

If a 5-tournament period that includes multiple 100% correlation games doesn't get picked up as an anomality by his statistical analysis, the method sounds extremely poor to me.

 

you might want to inform yourself what '100% correlation games' means in regard to chessbase analysis.

I give you a hint: it does not mean that Hans played 100% stockfish moves, or any other singular engine.

 

and if analyzing the chessbase method is not up your alley....do people really believe if he had 100% correlation he wouldn't get caught sooner than later by tournament organisation, FIDE et all? come on man...

To my understanding engine correlation compares the moves with multiple engines.

"Do people really believe if he had 100% correlation he wouldn't get caught sooner than later by tournament organisation, FIDE et all?"

So you're saying it's false information?

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

and if i wuz ?...id spill myself all over u in ur lap...so there. lol !

JohnNapierSanDiego

I've never had such mixed feelings about spilling hot coffee in my lap! frustrated

CraigIreland

Looks like we've got ourselves a Chess romance.

FA-18_SuperHornet2007

We can’t definitively say Hans cheated. FIDE certainly has some things to think about. Magnus has a right to be angry. A little German teen i have never heard of just comes and beats him, the best in the world. Hans has admitted to cheating before. Magnus’ complaint is not unwarranted. But we need rock hard evidence before we can rush to judgment 

Knights_of_Doom

Still nobody has answered my question... how commonly do other players get 100's on individual games.

CraigIreland

#46: In GM matches, very rarely. Apart from Niemann's 100's, I'm aware of one other case which has been found. I wouldn't be surprised if there's one or two more waiting to be discovered.

Ziryab
Kotshmot wrote:

To my understanding engine correlation compares the moves with multiple engines.

 

That fails to explain why I found 85% in a game that gambit-man found 100%.

I ran all eight games that are alleged to have 100% and only found that result in one. The moves in that game were pretty easy to guess. Most were quite obvious. After the opening, there were maybe three moves where I might have chosen a different move from Niemann’s seat.

JohnNapierSanDiego
Knights_of_Doom wrote:

Still nobody has answered my question... how commonly do other players get 100's on individual games.

 

I'll tell you this

 

Bobby Fischer never did it.

 

Not once.

FREEtheBASE2018

Such statistics should be performed on a large amount of players before exposing conclusions.

jewelmind

I think it would be great if someone could spend some time on Chessbase with Niemann's 100% games, and by a process of elimination find out if the move correlation is randomly to a range of engines, or if we have games that align perfectly with, for example, an earlier version of Rybka or Fritz or whatever. If Niemann's moves in a game all correlate with the top move of only one engine that would be a pretty convincing indication that he's used that engine. Even if there's only two or three engines in the correlation, that would strongly suggest the possibility that an accomplice was consulting those engines.

PopcornSC

The problem with that is he doesn't really even need to be fed moves to gain a significant advantage. He could just be getting the eval. I'm interested to see how this shakes out but another problem is that he's likely a genuinely strong GM without cheating, if not 2700 level and he has a genuinely strong GM as a teacher/coach that was caught cheating OTB. There isn't really any concrete evidence that he has cheated OTB but this will be a wild ride no matter what happens, that we can be sure of.

jewelmind

If there are games that correlate 100% with only 1 or 2 engines, it would be hard to escape the conclusion that actual moves were being fed.

PopcornSC

My point is that there probably won't be. If he is cheating then he's likely only receiving the eval and/or key moves in critical positions.

GMahatma

SaturnianMan wrote:

Why aren't people stating the obvious? Anyone who has ever worked with Stockfish to analyze endgames should know Niemann is a POS. To achieve 100% correlation 10 times in 5 consecutive tournaments after (and I'll be generous) 15 moves of OTB Chess is actually humanly impossible, just based on what we know from engine parameters. Human mind can not execute endgames with 100% accuracy. The kid's a worm and should be treated accordingly. C'mon, guys! 

 

stop spreading false information. Niemann did not have 100% correlation with stockfisch 10 times in 5 tournaments.

do you really think if that was true that FIDE would not have banned him already?

do you think Magnus would call him a cheat without further evidence if he could just state the correlation and have Niemann banned pretty much immediately?

 

the dunning krueger in full flow here...

snoozyman

@GMahatma

Remember, Hans admitted to cheating when he was younger. Also, his mentor Maxim Dlugy is also a known cheater in 2017 and 2020. Just throwing that out there.

GMahatma
snoozyman wrote:

@GMahatma

Remember, Hans admitted to cheating when he was younger. Also, his mentor Maxim Dlugy is also a known cheater in 2017 and 2020. Just throwing that out there.

 

many people have cheated as minors, we are not hunting them like Hans. And it's not like Dlugy has been working with Hans all this time neither.

 

Look, if I were to bet money, I'd lean towards Hans cheating as well. The problem is, people keep repeating the same fake proof and ignore the fact that even their leader in this case, Magnus, obviously does not think Hans cheated in a way similar to Ivanov or Feller as he would have been caught already in this case. Which means the real problem according to Magnus is not cheating in and by itself, but the fact that it has gotten so sophisticated that we're not really capable of detecting it yet.

FA-18_SuperHornet2007

HANS CHEATED 

FA-18_SuperHornet2007

https://nypost.com/2022/09/28/hans-niemanns-coach-admitted-to-cheating-emails/

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