It’s precisely the reverse. I am super stressed in a classical tournament game. Blitz just feels like offhand games to me. No stress.
Nepo - it's just embarrassing for the game now.
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Kartikeya I am guessing you have never played classical chess.
It’s precisely the reverse. I am super stressed in a classical tournament game. Blitz just feels like offhand games to me. No stress.
It’s precisely the reverse. I am super stressed in a classical tournament game. Blitz just feels like offhand games to me. No stress.
Dec 9, 2021
0
#243
Ubik42 wrote:
it’s just too much pressure for the poor guy.
Even if I played at their level, I don’t think I would do well in such a match. Some, like Magnus, handle the pressure fine and even thrive in it.
Even if I played at their level, I don’t think I would do well in such a match. Some, like Magnus, handle the pressure fine and even thrive in it.
Yep...and that is what separates them from us.
We have had world champions like Euwe, who wasnt even a full time professional chess player.
We have had world champions like Botvinnik who were incredibly gifted.
Then we have players like Capablanca, Alekhine, Fischer, Karpov, Kapsarov, and now Carlsen. Who are just on a different playing field.
Dec 9, 2021
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#244
"Classical chess is not a place where nerves play such a big role."
I am going to assume you have never played classical OTB tournament chess by this comment?
I have gone into the last day of tournaments with a shot at first. You better believe nerves plays into those games.
Ubik42 wrote:
Kartikeya I am guessing you have never played classical chess.
It’s precisely the reverse. I am super stressed in a classical tournament game. Blitz just feels like offhand games to me. No stress.
It’s precisely the reverse. I am super stressed in a classical tournament game. Blitz just feels like offhand games to me. No stress.
Stress is different. It's fine to be stressed... however in my humble opinion there is a lower bound of what blunders one can possibly make given his rating and given he has time to calculate.
For example, i simply won't accept a 1300+ player not seeing a direct attack on his knight in classical chess with time to think. I think that it should fall below the lower bound of any 1300+ player in slow chess.
For super GMs a double attack should be pretty obvious. I am frankly shell shocked after nepo's explanation of why he allowed Qa3+... he did calculate it but he didn''t see that his bishop was being attacked? are u serious? that tactic was like 3 move deep... it's insane how a super GM who has given his life to chess could calculate a line 3 moves deep and miss a detail in a very very forcing continuation.
Fischer said (very correctly) that the amount of moves he can see ahead depends on how forcing the line is and that any GM can see like 20 moves ahead in a line where the continuation is very forcing... In nepo's case the continuation was 3 move deep Qa3+ Kg8 Qxa7.. that's it.. that was the only thing he had to visualize and he forgot that the bishop is attacked?
As i said, the only explanation is that the match is fixed... i hope for nepo's sake that the match is fixed
kartikeya_tiwari wrote:
PhiRev wrote:
IMKeto wrote:
"I don't know why people are so hell bent at defending nepo's frankly outrageous blunders. "
I would think people are defending him being human.
Yes, exactly. It's really impossibly hard to face Carlsen, as he's been so ridiculously precise in his play aside that oversight in game 2 where he ended up the exchange down. But even then, he recovered fairly quickly, planted his knight on d6 and played amazingly well until the end of that game. It's easy to forget that Carlsen has such a merciless playing style, where he'll just completely exhaust his opponents physically and mentally. Nepo's mistakes come after 5 hard-fought draws that were anything but peaceful. It's totally understandable why that happened, and this similar thing would happen to so many GM's facing Magnus in the championship match.
Just to highlight how dangerous Carlsen can be with black pieces, there was a really great game that Carlsen played against Svidler in 2014, where Svidler was being somewhat passive and inattentive in the opening as White, and Carlsen built up the attack so well and nearly crushed him. Luckily for Pete, he found several amazing defensive moves and Carlsen got a bit imprecise, so Svidler escaped with the draw, but he barely managed to. Here it is:
Again, carlsen being the best is not the issue here. Karjakin was leading vs magnus, caruana drew all games vs magnus. Hell, even anand was outplayed by magnus in 2013 and did not blunder pieces in one move... nepo's blunders are way too much
I don't understand. "way too much" what?
Dec 9, 2021
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#247
For those interested, Aronian and Caruana spent around 20 minutes talking about the psychology of playing at this level (starting at the 5 hour, 19 minute mark of the video). They both had some insightful comments about it, and about the nature of blunders, as well:
This is what happens when people have high expectations. Wake up.
Kartikeya “As i said, the only explanation is that the match is fixed”
Bobby Fischer and Bigfoot composed the pre arranged games in Graceland while Elvis and Robert Kennedy Jr. looked on. It was all funded by Michael Jackson and an alliance of the UN, comic book collecters, cycle gangs, and fast food chains.
Nepo was threatened with immediate termination via orbital space lasers if he didn’t follow the script.
He was up all night memorizing the game. Magnus already had the game memorized because it was actually a move by move copy of Labourdanis/McDonnell game 17.
Bobby Fischer and Bigfoot composed the pre arranged games in Graceland while Elvis and Robert Kennedy Jr. looked on. It was all funded by Michael Jackson and an alliance of the UN, comic book collecters, cycle gangs, and fast food chains.
Nepo was threatened with immediate termination via orbital space lasers if he didn’t follow the script.
He was up all night memorizing the game. Magnus already had the game memorized because it was actually a move by move copy of Labourdanis/McDonnell game 17.
The whole reason the internet was invented was so that insignificant patzers can pretend to be superior to the best players in the world
do we even need a better reason!
Dec 9, 2021
0
#252
kartikeya_tiwari wrote:
IMKeto wrote:
"Point being, nepo has absolutely no excuse for making blunders ..."
Of course he does...he is human. And none of us are perfect...no matter how much some of us want to believe they are.
He isn't just "a human", he has dedicated his life and career to chess so he literally has no excuse to miss a double attack from the queen when he has an hour left. This is outrageous.
Such tactics should come naturally to him... what's next? formula 1 champion forgets to drive as "he is human"? soccer player botches kicking a non moving ball as he is "human"? sorry but no, such excuses don't fly
It's like the blunder svidler played in his candidates 2014 game against mamedyarov. Ben findgold rightly said there is no excuse for such a blunder unless you are a low rated player and u missed it. However in svidler's case his blunder of a pawn still had an idea behind it of pinning the bishop... nepo just throws pawns and bishops away, idk man
Your analogies are so off the mark, they don't even deserve a response.
I think people who are pretending to be surprised by mistakes made at high levels of competition are very new to how high level competition works. It's almost as if they have never seen a high level competition before, and simply didn't realize that mistakes are nothing new.
I would imagine most people could pick any sort of high level competition and find mistakes FAR more disastrous than the 2021 world chess championship.
Ernie Els six putting from 3 feet at the Masters. Rickie Fowler and Hale Irwin missing a putt from 2 inches. Impossible? Yes. But even though it was impossible, it still happened. THE very best have made mistakes far worse than someone misplaying a chess move.
Dec 9, 2021
0
#254
lfPatriotGames wrote:
kartikeya_tiwari wrote:
PhiRev wrote:
IMKeto wrote:
"I don't know why people are so hell bent at defending nepo's frankly outrageous blunders. "
I would think people are defending him being human.
Yes, exactly. It's really impossibly hard to face Carlsen, as he's been so ridiculously precise in his play aside that oversight in game 2 where he ended up the exchange down. But even then, he recovered fairly quickly, planted his knight on d6 and played amazingly well until the end of that game. It's easy to forget that Carlsen has such a merciless playing style, where he'll just completely exhaust his opponents physically and mentally. Nepo's mistakes come after 5 hard-fought draws that were anything but peaceful. It's totally understandable why that happened, and this similar thing would happen to so many GM's facing Magnus in the championship match.
Just to highlight how dangerous Carlsen can be with black pieces, there was a really great game that Carlsen played against Svidler in 2014, where Svidler was being somewhat passive and inattentive in the opening as White, and Carlsen built up the attack so well and nearly crushed him. Luckily for Pete, he found several amazing defensive moves and Carlsen got a bit imprecise, so Svidler escaped with the draw, but he barely managed to. Here it is:
Again, carlsen being the best is not the issue here. Karjakin was leading vs magnus, caruana drew all games vs magnus. Hell, even anand was outplayed by magnus in 2013 and did not blunder pieces in one move... nepo's blunders are way too much
I don't understand. "way too much" what?
Thats ok...I don't think he understands or even believes what he posts.
Dec 9, 2021
0
#255
Laskersnephew wrote:
The whole reason the internet was invented was so that insignificant patzers can pretend to be superior to the best players in the world
I thought that was what chess engines were for?
Dec 9, 2021
0
#256
lfPatriotGames wrote:
I think people who are pretending to be surprised by mistakes made at high levels of competition are very new to how high level competition works. It's almost as if they have never seen a high level competition before, and simply didn't realize that mistakes are nothing new.
I would imagine most people could pick any sort of high level competition and find mistakes FAR more disastrous than the 2021 world chess championship.
Ernie Els six putting from 3 feet at the Masters. Rickie Fowler and Hale Irwin missing a putt from 2 inches. Impossible? Yes. But even though it was impossible, it still happened. THE very best have made mistakes far worse than someone misplaying a chess move.
If you look at those complaining. They are speed chess players.
kartikeya_tiwari escribió:
IMKeto wrote:
"Point being, nepo has absolutely no excuse for making blunders ..."
Of course he does...he is human. And none of us are perfect...no matter how much some of us want to believe they are.
He isn't just "a human", he has dedicated his life and career to chess so he literally has no excuse to miss a double attack from the queen when he has an hour left. This is outrageous.
Such tactics should come naturally to him... what's next? formula 1 champion forgets to drive as "he is human"? soccer player botches kicking a non moving ball as he is "human"? sorry but no, such excuses don't fly
It's like the blunder svidler played in his candidates 2014 game against mamedyarov. Ben findgold rightly said there is no excuse for such a blunder unless you are a low rated player and u missed it. However in svidler's case his blunder of a pawn still had an idea behind it of pinning the bishop... nepo just throws pawns and bishops away, idk man
It must be really tough for you to watch sports.
Dec 9, 2021
0
#258
Pulpofeira wrote:
kartikeya_tiwari escribió:
IMKeto wrote:
"Point being, nepo has absolutely no excuse for making blunders ..."
Of course he does...he is human. And none of us are perfect...no matter how much some of us want to believe they are.
He isn't just "a human", he has dedicated his life and career to chess so he literally has no excuse to miss a double attack from the queen when he has an hour left. This is outrageous.
Such tactics should come naturally to him... what's next? formula 1 champion forgets to drive as "he is human"? soccer player botches kicking a non moving ball as he is "human"? sorry but no, such excuses don't fly
It's like the blunder svidler played in his candidates 2014 game against mamedyarov. Ben findgold rightly said there is no excuse for such a blunder unless you are a low rated player and u missed it. However in svidler's case his blunder of a pawn still had an idea behind it of pinning the bishop... nepo just throws pawns and bishops away, idk man
It must be really tough for you to watch sports.
What is that saying"
"Those that cant do, teach. Those that cant teach, consult. And those that cant consult, complain."
I heard a version “Those who can’t, teach. Those who can’t teach, administrate. Those who can’t administrate, run for office. “
Dec 9, 2021
0
#260
Ubik42 wrote:
I heard a version “Those who can’t, teach. Those who can’t teach, administrate. Those who can’t administrate, run for office. “
Oh, thank you for sharing that version. That one is so funny!
The only one I've known is:
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym."
U are dissing on how "low rated amateurs" are criticizing his move, however nepo's only job is to play chess. ... Yes, amateurs who have jobs and families to attend to, can only give chess like 1 hour each day, does not have a chess regime behind them working for them, does not have 10 guys working day and night to find best opening theories and variations and does not have 20 year long professional training.
Sorry but this "you low rated he high rated so no criticize" attitude lacks any brains whatsoever. Sure, reverse the clock, give me 20 years worth of professional training, pay my bills so that all i do is work on chess everyday and when situations are similar then and only then can i criticize the moves?
I didn't say that low-rated amateurs shouldn't criticize. Viewers (of any sport or game) are free to criticize all they want.
What I said was that most low-rated amateurs have no idea what it's like to compete on such a stage, nor at such a level. As a result, they can't possibly understand all the various factors that can affect a player's performance.
This is a factual statement. You can take offense at it all you like, but the statement still remains true.
We can look at blunders and criticize them (or the player). Sure. Go for it. The argument that a player of Nepo's level should've seen his mistakes is a valid one.
But until you've been in a similar situation, you can't possibly know what it's like to be the one at the board, making those moves ...
You are right, nerves do play a role but there is a big condition, that the activity should be quick. Classical chess is not a place where nerves play such a big role. If some soccer player under extreme pressure misses a free goal then it's understandable since it's such a quick time event... however a chess super GM making elementary blunders when he has an hour left on the clock?
Will u suddenly miss a knight fork when u have an hour just because 10 people are watching you? i highly doubt it.
Also, nerves effect the first few games, not game 9. That's way too deep to be in the match to get the "nerves" card bailout