Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
I suspct myself that the lack of female chess grandmasters is due to the interest and reward systems more than the raw capabilities.
I agree with you there:)
Nigel Short: Women's brains not chess brains
Sort:
Guys usually try especially hard to beat females because they dont want to face the ridicule of " being beaten by a woman/girl " ! I used to be that way before moving to Europe but lost so many games to females in Europe that I no longer feel that way . What does this mean ? Now I do put forth greater effort to beat players that are much lower rated than me and ill mannered players ...
ProfessorProfesesen wrote:
ab121705 wrote:
GnrfFrtzl wrote:
It's not a point, I'm just genuinely curious about it.
I feel it's such a taboo to even consider that they're simply too afraid of attacks from the public to make a study.
that is true; you cannot discuss taboo subjects like that- we must remain ignorant.
Awww! You poor babies...what are we to do?
remain ignorant
Apr 20, 2015
0
#45
Does it even matter? Suppose women's brain are different. So what? Why do women have to prove anything? Why does anyone have to prove anything to anyone?
Does it mean that if I am or women are 'inferior' by someones "standards", then they are going to be booted off the planet. Or they don't deserve respect or any rights or to be treated like a human being?
This has a very suspicious structure to a bunch of people who thought another bunch of people were inferior, and started booting them off the planet, in millions.
It seeme, we are constantly teetering on the brink of fascism and exploitation.
Apr 20, 2015
0
#46
ab121705 wrote:
ProfessorProfesesen wrote:
ab121705 wrote:
GnrfFrtzl wrote:
It's not a point, I'm just genuinely curious about it.
I feel it's such a taboo to even consider that they're simply too afraid of attacks from the public to make a study.
that is true; you cannot discuss taboo subjects like that- we must remain ignorant.
Awww! You poor babies...what are we to do?
remain ignorant
trysts wrote:
Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
I suspct myself that the lack of female chess grandmasters is due to the interest and reward systems more than the raw capabilities.
I agree with you there:)
Hehe.
OT i did martial arts and archery in the past.
In martial arts is was clear that the gender difference was HUGE, also in things you don't normally consider such as speed, willingness to win, resistance to punch opponents and compusure when under pressure. The girls would much more often completely loose their cool when they were overmatches whereas guys try to sort of keep something going and bite it down.
In archery on the other hand I didnt see any gender difference what so ever. The only thing was that women with big boobs had problems with the boob getting slapped by the bow string lol.
Apr 20, 2015
0
#48
Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
trysts wrote:
Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
I suspct myself that the lack of female chess grandmasters is due to the interest and reward systems more than the raw capabilities.
I agree with you there:)
Hehe.
OT i did martial arts and archery in the past.
In martial arts is was clear that the gender difference was HUGE, also in things you don't normally consider such as speed, willingness to win, resistance to punch opponents and compusure when under pressure. The girls would much more often completely loose their cool when they were overmatches whereas guys try to sort of keep something going and bite it down.
In archery on the other hand I didnt see any gender difference what so ever. The only thing was that women with big boobs had problems with the boob getting slapped by the bow string lol.
Sounds like you enjoyed your archery classes...
Apr 20, 2015
0
#49
Trysts, I agree that there is sexism in chess. Several of my female students have told me horror stories of how they have been treated by males in various tournaments.
That doesn't change the biological issue. I've seen statistics that claim that 96% of the difference between men and women can be accounted for by cultural and statistical realities (including the fact that far more men play competitive chess than women).* That still leaves 4% to biological factors, which is important when discussing the very top of the pyramid, to biological factors.
And again, I'm only talking about the very highest levels of chess. My female students perform about as well as my male students after the same amount of lessons. There will probably be a woman who is world champion of all chess players at some point. That doesn't disprove the point that there are real physical differences that make the task harder for women.
I'll look for Polgar's quote in response to Kasparov about a decade ago where she agreed that there are biological differences between men and women that make it harder for women to succeed.
Basically, the physical differences between men and women are real, but not sufficient to claim that women can't play chess as well as men in general. Those differences are enough to suggest that even in a perfectly unbiased culture women would still have more difficulty than men in becoming world champion.
_____________
*http://phys.org/news150954140.html
Apr 20, 2015
0
#50
stuzzicadenti wrote:
i think males and females should learn to get along with each other.
without the other we as humans would not be able to survive beyond one generation.
I always look to find the right time to promote my philosophy of squirrel dominance:
Apr 20, 2015
0
#51
SmyslovFan wrote:
Trysts, I agree that there is sexism in chess. Several of my female students have told me horror stories of how they have been treated by males in various tournaments.
That doesn't change the biological issue. I've seen statistics that claim that 96% of the difference between men and women can be accounted for by cultural and statistical realities (including the fact that far more men play competitive chess than women).* That still leaves 4% to biological factors, which is important when discussing the very top of the pyramid, to biological factors.
And again, I'm only talking about the very highest levels of chess. My female students perform about as well as my male students after the same amount of lessons. There will probably be a woman who is world champion of all chess players at some point. That doesn't disprove the point that there are real physical differences that make the task harder for women.
I'll look for Polgar's quote in response to Kasparov about a decade ago where she agreed that there are biological differences between men and women that make it harder for women to succeed.
Basically, the physical differences between men and women are real, but not sufficient to claim that women can't play chess as well as men in general. Those differences are enough to suggest that even in a perfectly unbiased culture women would still have more difficulty than men in becoming world champion.
_____________
So you have a theory that it's going to be hard for a woman to be world chess champion, because you think you'll pinpoint something in our brains? Good luck:)
ProfessorProfesesen wrote: blah blah blah
yes we've heard this noise for decades now Prof. grow up, get a brain, get over it.
Brown people were just as vicious way back when as white Europeans. They were raping, colonizing, pillaging, torturing each other in ways not dreamed of by whitey (look it up stupid!!).
It's what was done back then, by everyone!! Europeans just did it better.
Grow up and stop living in the past.
It's proven beyond any doubt that males are vastly better than females at spatial mental operations. Testosterone seems to be the key thing, since if you administer males or females testosterone their spatial mental operations temporarily improve. My testosterone is quite low which I think helps explain my low chess talent and terrible sense of direction.
I think people like trysts are not seriously trying to objectively find the truth, but are trying to persuade people to think certain things.
Apr 20, 2015
0
#55
SmyslovFan wrote:
I'll look for Polgar's quote in response to Kasparov about a decade ago where she agreed that there are biological differences between men and women that make it harder for women to succeed.
Look under S for Sophia.
Apr 20, 2015
0
#56
Thanks, Batgirl! I was wondering if it was one of her sisters who made the quote. I'll have to look it up later though.
I mean, I think Short can be obnoxious in general, but I'm not going to assume he has some hatred just because he has an opinion that is politically incorrect. If he is "unlucky" enough to find this view logical, then his only choices are to be honest about it or to lie about it. I don't think he should have to lie about it. I would hope he thought about the issue long enough but who's to say he hasn't? Two people can think about something long and hard and come to different conclusions, especially when it's of such an open-ended question.
Give me a proof that women are on average equal in strength in chess to males.
Apr 20, 2015
0
#59
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:
It's proven beyond any doubt that that males are vastly better than females at spatial mental operations. Testosterone seems to be the key thing, since if you administer males or females testosterone their spatial mental operations temporarily improve. My testosterone is quite low which I think helps explain my low chess talent and terrible sense of direction.
I think people like trysts are not seriously trying to objectively find the truth, but are trying to persuade people to think certain things.
I'm not bright enough nor educated in those fields enough to figure out what biological data will persuade the scientific community to recognize how hard it will be for a female to become a world chess champion. So I can only speak in a chess forum about the different social problems which may make it difficult.
So you see, Smyslovfan, it is not that our brains are not equipped for being great at chess. It is a social issue.
"Sabrina Chevannes, a British women’s international master, the grade below a women’s grandmaster, said: “Chess definitely has a problem with sexism, I have faced it all my career.”