ONLINE USCF RATED RULES - TOUCH MOVE

I am curious.... In an online tournament that is USCF rated, how do the touch move rules work or do they not apply? In other words, is it against the rules to have a real board set up and you can make the moves on the board before actually submitting your move in the online game? I have not seen any rules that even addresses this issue. I know that you have to have a webcam from the side to see you so obviously, they would see this but if there is no rule against it, then it should be ok to do it. You aren't using an engine when you are doing this. Also, you can move a piece on your screen without dropping it on the square so there isn't much difference here using the actual board. Thanks to anyone that can answer this question.

Interesting question. I see your point. My gut tells me they would have an issue with it though.  Lets see if we can find out for sure

The rules are whatever the interface for the site being used does: https://new.uschess.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/us-chess-rule-book-online-only-edition-chapter-10-8-24-20.pdf

Page 13, section 12 but the pertinent parts:

12B. Touch-Move.In online games, players are not allowed to claim touch-move violations as defined in Rule 10B, Touch-move rule(Chapter 1).12B1. Variation: Host Platform Programmed to Enforce Touch-Move.If the host platform is programmed to automatically enforce touch move when a player selects a piece, the host shall not allow a player to select and move a different piece

For a tourney game that requires webcams, you most likely will be forced to use only the interface, since looking away could be construed as using outside assistance.

Martin Stahl, You may be correct but I've looked at all of the rules I could find for playing in USCF online tournaments and this possibly doesn't seem to be addressed at all. It only addresses chess engines and of course you can't look up openings in a book or online of course. Nowhere have I found anything that mentions having a real board there that you can make the moves on before deciding on your actual online move. It's not an engine, it's like correspondence chess. Anyway, I hope someone who truly knows the answer to this question sees it and can answer it.

Ultimately it is up to the TD. If they are not requiring a webcam, there really isn't anything in the rules to cover it. If they are requesting a webcam, the the act of looking towards your board may get you kicked from the event. However, you should ask the TD of any event you plan on playing, because other than the link to the online rules, there isn't anything else official that I'm aware of.

I figure that if some so called  "experts" at something are going to create a set of  rules as to what is or is not ok when playing in online tournaments, if they fail to mention something, then it must be legal! In OTB play, in person, they don't allow you to write notes to yourself, though I think this is a bizarre rule, there is no mention of this either in the online rules. Online and OTB play have totally different mechanics. I don't think one TD should be able to allow something while another TD does not. This is too arbitrary a standard to go by. Either it OK all the time or it's NEVER OK. The rules need to cover these things. Anything not specifically mentioned is within the rules as far as I can see. Also, To URKEDCROW, some people like to play with an actual REAL BOARD in front of them. The 3D board is often easier to visualize things on. 

So, I see that Martin Stahl is a moderator here. That's good. But with that in mind it sounds like you don't have a definitive answer to this question. So, I'll pose a slightly different question to you. Lets say I join a USCF online tourney, and lets say I was to try and use a real board. Since there is no written rule about this, and chess.com has no rule about this (it sounds like you guys are leaving this up to the TD) then if I got kicked out of a tournament for trying it would that mean you'd ban someone from chess.com and call this cheating? Even though it's not covered in any way under your cheating rules? Just asking. 

In most online USCF tournaments i've seen, most of them state in the rules that using a physical board is not allowed (most likely to prevent people from playing out a line they think is good)

Ninja888 thanks for the response.  I'll have to look at specific tournament rules then I guess. I've never seen that but I haven't looked atant specific tournament rules.

This is already allowed in OTB chess. There are rules that are at TD discretion and there are things that can be different if all tournament announcements include any changes over the defaults, etc.

Regulations 4A, 4B/4B1 discuss variations for online play and TDs. With monitoring, it says you should follow all normal rules; that would include the use of notes, but in general, if you wanted to write notes to yourself, while playing, it wouldn't be to the letter of the rules, but it would be hard impossible to enforce without a TD present or multiple webcams, which some events require.

It's isn't possible to enumerate every single possible scenario.

Being a moderator doesn't give me any specific rule-making and decision making rights. I was approaching your question from US Chess specific standpoint.

As far as I'm aware, the site does not have a specific prohibition against the use of a physical board if a player wants to use one for play on site,  If the player is not using the board to physically analyze positions, always moves the piece on the software that was moved on the board (regardless if they realized it could be a blunder), then there really isn't a problem. Some people disagree, but as I said, I don't think the site has ever had an official answer either way (Danny Rensch may have said something about it on a video once, but I don't believe it is official policy).

So, with all that, I don't see how use of a physical board is something either the site or a TD would ever know about, if you decided to use one, unless they are requiring the use of webcams. In that instance, if you are found looking away from the screen a lot (and you would for every move), then you would likely be disqualified from the event.

That is why I suggested asking the TD their stance  before joining an officially rated event. If the TD doesn't have an issue with it, then you would be good to go.

I dont think so

Here's an example: