Only horrible people like queen endings

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Avatar of AlisonHart

I hate queen endings.......I'll play a middlegame, I'll play an endgame, but queen endings are THE WORST. It's incredibly easy to blunder, extra material often doesn't matter, and it's usually just a race to the first check - if the attacker checks first, there's a decisive result....if the defender checks first, it's a draw by perpetual.

 

OK, I can moan and groan about how much I hate these torturous positions, but they inevitably appear on the board. So what's your best advice on queen endings? Is it 95% calculation or is there a positional, principle-based way of surviving these horrible creatures? 

Avatar of Rook_n_Roll

It's really funny that you say that because I hate them too lol. There are many positions where they are drawish due to the threat of perpetual check. A good strategy is to try to create a passed pawn, as these are especially powerful in queen endings, then when you get two queens trade off your opponents queen and the rest is a basic checkmate.

Avatar of ewq85

If your opponent doesn't want to trade it can work to your advantage. Use your queen to boss theirs around. Keep insisting on the trade until you force it or til your position is better then start pushing pawns. If they are to timid to trade, be aggressive. Just watch out for perpetual checks.

Avatar of MuhammadAreez10

I hate them too. It is so difficult to promote your passers with all those checks coming. Bishop+Knight mate is way, way better than that stuff.

Avatar of AlisonHart

I've grown to love bishop versus knight endings, bendzsa - it's really a battle of wits to see who can improve their piece more effectively. Actually, GM Bojkov has a chess mentor series on minor piece endings on this site, and going through all of those puzzles (some were very much above my level) has really helped me appreciate the beautiful things those pieces can do. I love 'traditional' endgames - improve the pieces, move the king around, create passed pawns, and make poetry! 

 

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I've got this in one of my current correspondence games - three pawns up, and serious hopes to convert. I don't want concrete lines, of course - because winning your own games is tech. But you've definitely help me feel a little less wrongfooted about pushing 

Avatar of AlisonHart

Update - lost the totally won position....missed a check, turned into a series of checks, queen skewered, game over

 

I HATE QUEEN ENDINGS!!!!!

Avatar of Robert_New_Alekhine

This queen ending is easily won for black. White has no checks.

Avatar of varelse1

I got better at Q vs Q endings by studying Q vs R endings.

I know that makes no sense. And yes, I have yet to encounter a Q vs R ending. but Q vs Q it helped me immensly.

Avatar of varelse1

Whenever I enter a Q vs Q ending, I have two statements I always repeat to  myself, like a mantra.

1.Pawn quality is more important than pawn quantity.

2.Whoever has the initiative, has the advantage.

(Just don't write it down in your notes, or you'll forfiet!)Tongue Out

Avatar of trysts

Queen endings are still scary for me. I'll try to avoid them even if I have to start crying.

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

Try Comprehensive Chess Endings Volume 3: Queen Endings.  They give different principles and guidelines such as where to place your king, when a pawn on the seventh is a forced win or draw, how to convert the win if applicable, differences between pawn on the seventh for different ranks (like differences between white pawn on c7 or b7), opponent's king placement, and other factors.  It isn't all checking, you'll have to stop eventually to either cut the king off or move your own king. 

All chess players eventually need to know the nuances of such endings. 

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie
trysts wrote:

Queen endings are still scary for me. I'll try to avoid them even if I have to start crying.

Studying them is quite exhausting, even going through the queen ending chapter in Understanding Chess Endings (the queen ending section of Van Perlo's Endgame Tactics was quite good and enjoyable however) was tiring, lots of analysis.  Then after that I tackled CCE: Volume 3. 

That was tough to study but it's part of breaking ourselves and building ourselves back up as chess players. 

Avatar of varelse1

I figure any ending I hate, my opponents gonna hate worse!

(Yes, I'm one of those "horrible people" the OP mentioned!)Tongue Out

Avatar of trysts
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:
trysts wrote:

Queen endings are still scary for me. I'll try to avoid them even if I have to start crying.

Studying them is quite exhausting, even going through the queen ending chapter in Understanding Chess Endings (the queen ending section of Van Perlo's Endgame Tactics was quite good and enjoyable however) was tiring, lots of analysis.  Then after that I tackled CCE: Volume 3. 

That was tough to study but it's part of breaking ourselves and building ourselves back up as chess players. 

I could never remember a volume on queen endingsLaughing I use to just trade queens as soon as possible in the opening, or at least try to. I did that for years.

Avatar of AlisonHart

Thanks, Varlese - I have Pandolfini's Endgame Course buried in a pile somewhere, and it has a chapter on Q v R endings that I mostly skipped (because I didn't think I'd encounter one!), so I'll dig it up and work out some habits in the comfort and safety of the analysis board.

 

Robert - I made an elementary error by trying to harmonize my queen and rook (to create trades) rather than putting my queen on the long diagonal with the king (thus preventing all checks forever) - my opponent took advantage, I saw he had a perpetual, offered a draw, my opponent refused - thinking I would blunder, and I rewarded him by playing bad moves. 

 

Trysts - this whole game had me crying....I hate the king's gambit, but, OK, I've learned to live with it....I feel I deserve an extra pawn for being a good girl, but, OK, I gave back the pawn....I get very nervous when everyone's attacking each other at once, but I got the better of it, so OK - better is better. I started winning material, and everything was coming up roses.....but then it was a queen ending....and Alison loses queen endings :(

Avatar of varelse1
AlisonHart wrote:

Thanks, Varlese - I have Pandolfini's Endgame Course buried in a pile somewhere, and it has a chapter on Q v R endings that I mostly skipped (because I didn't think I'd encounter one!), so I'll dig it up and work out some habits in the comfort and safety of the analysis board.

 

That was the exact book I was thinking of. If you're reading this Bruce, thank you!

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

The problem with an early queen trade is it tends to be drawish.  Queens also seem to add extra coordination and unify the other pieces.  The idea isn't to memorize all the analysis but rather the methods so they could be recalled. 

I think Alison meant position with very few pawns per side rather than all queen endings.  Basic Chess Endings has some strategic queen endings with plenty of pawns (I think a couple of the games were played by Pillsbury and quite memorable.) The fewer the pawns per side the more sensitive the position to checks as it's naturally more open and there's fewer options to (temporarily) sacrifice pawns for other compensation. 

Avatar of trysts
AlisonHart wrote:

 

Trysts - this whole game had me crying....I hate the king's gambit, but, OK, I've learned to live with it....I feel I deserve an extra pawn for being a good girl, but, OK, I gave back the pawn....I get very nervous when everyone's attacking each other at once, but I got the better of it, so OK - better is better. I started winning material, and everything was coming up roses.....but then it was a queen ending....and Alison loses queen endings :(

I know how you feel  Also, the King's Gambit scares the heck out of me. I never play it. Really the only time I see it is when I watch batgirl's games. I have to feel somewhat safe when I start a game of chess or I won't understand what's going on.

Avatar of RichColorado

                 I am one of those horrible people.

Avatar of SheridanJupp

Middlegames are for weaklings! hahaha. Trade queens in the opening and see how good you are :-)