Openings Seem Redundant

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PerpetuallyPatzer

In learning to play chess, it seems like the same moves over and over again in the beginning... The same 1. e4 e5 2. developing knights. 3 developing a bishop or moving a pawn forward... and it just seems like really mundane. Even in the beginning book I am reading, the Logical Chess Move by Move, it seems like every single game starts with the same way. I guess my question is does strategy and tactics come from once this mudaned moves that everyone makes every single game come into play cause it feels like the pros even make the same boring moves over and over. They said that according to game 3 of the championship yesterday that the auidence groaned when one of the players played the same opening sequence again. Just curious cause you see all these tactic trainers and puzzles but it seems like everyone uses the same moves over and over again

EscherehcsE

You don't always have to play 1. e4 e5. Mix it up, play 1. d4 every now and then. Or something else.

Even if you always play 1. e4 e5, one of you will sometimes play different subsequent moves. I mean, you have the Ruy Lopez, the Italian game, and the Petroff.

X_PLAYER_J_X
MrCPA12 wrote:

......They said that according to game 3 of the championship yesterday that the auidence groaned when one of the players played the same opening sequence again. Just curious cause you see all these tactic trainers and puzzles but it seems like everyone uses the same moves over and over again

The word "Redundant" is a relative word.

People wake up and brush their teeth every day.

They are being redundant.

What do you plan to do? Are you going to become a rebel?

I groan at the fact you brush your teeth. I am sure I can russel up a few more people who also groan at you brushing your teeth.

Are you going to stop washing your teeth to satify the auidence.

It would be more amusing to see you in a dentist office screaming like a little girl.

craftsmanshipbymark

If you're bored with an opening, go nuts--try 1.b4. These games will be anything but run-of-the-mill.

u0110001101101000
MrCPA12 wrote:

I guess my question is does strategy and tactics come from once this mudaned moves that everyone makes every single game come into play

Strategy and tactics are ubiquitous, regardless of the opening moves.

Experienced (and good) players often don't start thinking on their own for at least 10 moves. It doesn't really matter though, eventually they reach something they're unsure about or they've never seen before and that's essentially when the game starts for them.

I like to compare it to art. For example in painting, writing, or composing music there are many constraints. The genius comes form working within these constraints better than anyone else. In any case it's impossible to calculate so much that you can navigate the opening purely though calculation (even computers aren't good at this and rely on databases). The study they do before the game adds depth to what they can produce (instead of having to guess a lot during the opening phase).

In your book Logical Chess (which I have) I assume Chernev (the author) uses games with the same openings to help the student remember some of the classical patterns. He could have easily picked 100 different openings.

PerpetuallyPatzer
0110001101101000 wrote:

Strategy and tactics are ubiquitous, regardless of the opening moves.

Experienced (and good) players often don't start thinking on their own for at least 10 moves. It doesn't really matter though, eventually they reach something they're unsure about or they've never seen before and that's essentially when the game starts for them.

 

Thanks thats the answer I was looking for. +1 Cool

u0110001101101000

How well does/did atonal music or 12 tone music communicate? It's a success if it's bearable much less communicates anything.

For writing I don't even know what to compare it to. Archtypal themes, characters, and structure are everywhere and only help the communication. There are other constraints too like you can't have a conversation with many characters talking because the reader wont be able to follow it.

For painting, modern art communicates close to nothing.

I like to use this painting, which sold for millions, as an example of how empty some modern art is:

phpjoNkeZ.jpeg

u0110001101101000

I am not an artist happy.png

kindaspongey
MrCPA12 wrote:

... Even in the beginning book I am reading, the Logical Chess Move by Move, it seems like every single game starts with the same way. ...

In my copy, one can find:

Opening: Giuoco Piano (1.e4) Game 1

Opening: Giuoco Piano (1.e4) Game 2

Opening: Colle System (1.d4) Game 3

Opening: King's Gambit Declined (1.e4) Game 4

Opening: Giuoco Piano (1.e4) Game 5

Opening: Ruy Lopez (1.e4) Game 6

Opening: French Defense (1...e6) Game 7

Opening: Colle System (1.d4) Game 8

Opening: Ruy Lopez (1.e4) Game 9

Opening: French Defense (1...e6) Game 10

Opening: Colle System (1.d4) Game 11

Opening: English (1.c4) Game 12

Opening: French Defense (1...e6) Game 13

Opening: French Defense (1...e6) Game 14

Opening: Ruy Lopez (1.e4) Game 15

Opening: Queen's Gambit Accepted (1.d4) Game 16

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 17

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 18

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 19

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 20

Opening: Colle System (1.d4) Game 21

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 22

Opening: Stonewall Attack (1.d4) Game 23

Opening: Nimzo-Indian Defense (1...Nf6) Game 24

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 25

Opening: Sicilian Defense (1...c5) Game 26

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 27

Opening: Scandinavian Defense (1...d5) Game 28

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 29

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 30

Opening: Nimzo-Indian Defense (1...Nf6) Game 31

Opening: Queen's Indian Defense (1...Nf6) Game 32

Opening: Queen's Gambit Declined (1.d4) Game 33

kindaspongey
MrCPA12 wrote:

... it seems like everyone uses the same moves over and over again

In order to get a taste of the possible variety in the opening (and learn some useful stuff) one can try: Discovering Chess Openings by GM John Emms (2006)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627114655/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen91.pdf

blueemu
richie_and_oprah wrote:

Better chance for insanity with a move such as Nc3, I offer. 



LogoCzar

There are so many possibilities in the opening...



u0110001101101000
farmmouse wrote:

it is not the sense of possibility in the opening...it is for most, the fear of what to do first, and for others the three or four openings that have programmed themselves to choose.

the game of chess is not the opening.  it is the sight of the "other". what does the "other" see as their opening/response.  what is the game they think they are going to play ?

this is the opening.  the moves you make is how you see their "sight"...or am i just making a foolish remark ?

happy to be foolish ( my wife tells me all the time ).

Sort of foolish, sort of not.

I guess I'd just say that experienced players understand the opening in the following ways:

1) The opening moves that are played (including main variations the opponent can choose)
2) The moves that aren't played (i.e. knows what to do against bad or neutral move choices) and
3) The middlegame ideas the opening will lead to

The opening is always agreed on by both players (each player plays half of the moves). So for example if one player wants a sharp game and the other a quiet game they usually get something in between.

 

X_PLAYER_J_X
richie_and_oprah wrote:
craftsmanshipbymark wrote:

If you're bored with an opening, go nuts--try 1.b4. These games will be anything but run-of-the-mill.

Perhaps not the case as the best line v. b4 is well known and White may be compelled to play a series of moves hoping to keep equality as theory here is very congealed and there is little scope for original or creative play in White's game if Black chooses the right path.

1. b4 e5.  2. Bb2 Bxb4 3. Be5 Nf6

And Black, with minimal homework and time, gets real easy play. 

Better chance for insanity with a move such as Nc3, I offer. 

 

I disagree with Richie.

No one is forcing white to play any of those moves.

White could try the moves 1.b4 e5 2.a3

It has been tryed by top level players.

It certainly can add spice to a game.

SAGM001

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