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Opponent copies your moves in daily chess tournament

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Scottrf

There's a clear difference. You can't influence other people's games, but you can influence your opponents response in the first game if you are playing 2.

pelly13

Turbo : Bob (or Alice) can use their vacations to compensate for the "normal" time-frame , giving them extra time to respond.

ryszardos
tubebender wrote:
ryszardos wrote:

How would it be cheating? Just make a different move on one board and play on.

If it were that simple, we would not be having this big discussion, grasshopper. You will learn more by reading before giving opinions. Take my advice, you will thank me someday.

It IS that simple.

Scottrf
ryszardos wrote:
tubebender wrote:
ryszardos wrote:

How would it be cheating? Just make a different move on one board and play on.

If it were that simple, we would not be having this big discussion, grasshopper. You will learn more by reading before giving opinions. Take my advice, you will thank me someday.

It IS that simple.

No. You don't understand the situation.

Reread the topic and replies. The timing of games doesn't allow you to "make a different move on one board and play on."

TurboFish
pelly13 wrote:

Turbo : Bob (or Alice) can use their vacations to compensate for the "normal" time-frame , giving them extra time to respond.

Yes, Bob could use his vacation time to try to force Alice to make her black move first, but if Alice has more vacation time then Bob, she will simply go on vacation too, still forcing Bob to make his black move first.

My anti-copy-cat strategy only works for sure if one has more vacation time than the opponent.  So accumulate vacation time before entering matches with simultaneous games.

pelly13

So , we are stuck ? Vacation time decides the outcome of this horror.

ActiveKing
woton wrote:

If I make my move as white when they have gone to sleep (or to work), it will be 8 to 10 hours before they make their move as white.  In a one day per move time control, they will then have 16 hours to make their move as black, but I will have 24 hours. Therefore, they have to make their move as black before I make mine.

I need to remind people that they are being very stupid, the solution is simple and you don't need to use any vacation time.

pelly13

Active : Is your greatness willing to give us simple folks the solution ? Bet you need more time to think it over. Mouth is faster than the brain.

TurboFish
ActiveKing wrote:
woton wrote:

If I make my move as white when they have gone to sleep (or to work), it will be 8 to 10 hours before they make their move as white.  In a one day per move time control, they will then have 16 hours to make their move as black, but I will have 24 hours. Therefore, they have to make their move as black before I make mine.

I need to remind people that they are being very stupid, the solution is simple and you don't need to use any vacation time.

Your counter-strategy is very reasonable and probably works in practice most of the time, but it assumes you know the opponent's sleep schedule.  And if an opponent is determined to use the copy-cat strategy, they can hae their smartphone to alert them when it's their turn.  So your strategy, besides requiring information you probably don't have, can also be neutralized by technology.

By contrast, my counter-strategy is more robust, not involving any assumptions, only simple logic.

woton

Basic members have to complete the moves in all of their games before they can go on vacation (I don't think that this has changed since the last time that I used vacation).  Thus, it is possible to use the clock to force them to make their move.

Premium members can go on vacation at any time (in fact they have auto-vacation to prevent timing out).  They have to run out of vacation time before you can use the clock to force them to move.

klfay1

Ask Jamie Kowalski about this one.  He was playing a now-banned player named Immortal Gladiator.  IG was actually playing two games against two different high ranked players.  Whatever move Jamie played in one game, IG played in the other game against the other opponent.  When that player responded, he played that against Jamie, effectively forcing them to play each other.  IG was trying to use both ranked players to boost his own rating.  It is most definitely a form of cheating.

TurboFish
klfay1 wrote:

Ask Jamie Kowalski about this one.  He was playing a now-banned player named Immortal Gladiator.  IG was actually playing two games against two different high ranked players.  Whatever move Jamie played in one game, IM played in the other game against the other opponent.  When that player responded, he played that against Jamie, effectively forcing them to play each other.  IG was trying to use both ranked players to boost his own rating.  It is most definitely a form of cheating.

From now on, I should look at all of my opponent's chess.com games in progress to see if they are using that "double-copy-cat" strategy against me.  If so, I could contact the other player whose moves are being coppied.  Hopefully, I and the other victim could figure out a way to punish the copy-cat.

Drats, it just occurred to me that the other coppied game may be elsewhere than chess.com.  Hmm, the double-copy-cat strategy (used as you described) produces a result that is similar to cheating with engines, but is apparently legal.  Sad.  Moral of the story: high-rated players should beware of accepting challenges from low-rated players (as if they didn't know that already).

woton

@TurboFish

The strategy is to run your opponent's clock down before they make a move.  You have to make your move at a time when their response will be delayed (it may take some experimentation to find this time).  I presented one example of how this could be accomplished because I thought that an example would make it easier to understand the concept.

pelly13

Maybe Active King Bigmouth has found a way ? Let's await his solution.

ThrillerFan

The answer is simple.  Let's say you are playing a time control of 24 hours, and you recognize the problem at move 3.

Game starts 0:00 on 1/10.

0:03 1/10 - You move 1.e4 in Game A

7:15 1/10 - He moves 1.e4 in Game B

8:14 1/10 - You move 1...e5 in Game B

8:17 1/10 - He moves 1...e5 in Game A

8:34 1/10 - You Move 2.Nf3 in Game A

11:47 1/10 - He Moves 2.Nf3 in Game B

12:13 1/10 - You Move 2...Nc6 in Game B

14:15 1/10 - He Moves 2...Nc6 in Game A

15:23 1/10 - You Move 3.Bb5 in Game A

17:17 1/10 - He Moves 3.Bb5 in Game B

You recognize at 17:30 on 1/10 what is going on.  Here's the game status:

Game A - It's his move, he has 21:53 on the clock

Game B - It's your move, you have 23:47 on the clock

Wait until after 15:23 tomorrow to make your move in Game B.  Once he makes a move in game A, you make your next move IMMEDIATELY!  Make your move in Game B at say, 16:00.  When he moves in Game B, wait 22 or 23 hours.  Every time he moves in Game A, you move INSTANTLY!

The same would work if you move super slow in Game A and super fast in Game B.  The point is to get separation in the games.  Then, the one that falls behind, you deviate from what he does!

It may be slightly inconvenient for one of the two games, but after maybe a week or two, the games will be deviated enough to where you can go back to your normal pace.

Try it out!

TurboFish
woton wrote:

@TurboFish

The strategy is to run your opponent's clock down before they make a move.  You have to make your move at a time when their response will be delayed (it may take some experimentation to find this time).  I presented one example of how this could be accomplished because I thought that it would be easier to understand the concept.

Sounds like we're talking about the same counter-measure -- run down the clock of the would-be copy-cat so that they must make their first black move before I do (so that I can make a different black move).  Let's agree to agree.

pelly13

Thriller : That doesn't work either. He simply does the same. Whatever time you take , he will do too . You are basically playing 1 game , against yourself. It is a symmetrical situation , unless there is a difference in vacation time.

The problem is : You want him to move first in his White-game , where he won't be able to copy your move ( because you haven't moved in the other game yet). It is only the clock that can force him to do his move.

woton

@TurboFish

We're talking the same thing.  We just had different views of how to implement it.

eatdust

report this person to the site!  I think that is cheating also!!!

Lou-for-you

I hope somebody does that to me. Why copy my silly moves, when you can just beat me? It ends in 1-1.