Playing worse than before

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ilikewindmills
Wow. I'm having the opposite problem, if you can call it a problem. My Blitz and Bullet scores have gone up 200-300 in the last month.
ArgoNavis
AIM-AceMove wrote:
Fedec wrote:

Hello everyone!

So, I'm a little pissed off! I'm pissed because i feel like i'm playing worse since I started to study the game and get some books (I read carefuylly Amateur's mind and looked at some online videos on youtube channel chesswebsite.com). It isn't the fault of the book, clearly.

But my chess partner told me that I'm not as good as before. He says that, at the time, I played my style better. And as much as it pains me, I think he's right. I had some basic positional knowledge and I was all about playing defensive for a while (i was really good at understanding his plans and moves) and then counter when there's seemed to be a hole or weakness. I had success as a poker player and at the time, it was all about understanding your opponent hand range, playing style and take advantage of that regardless of my hands. This chess playing style isn't advisable. But against him, it worked. At least, in our matches, he won like 60% of the games. Even though I didn't know about particularities of closed/open games, bishops vs knights dynamics and so far. 

But now, since i seem to play more by the book, i kind of lost my style and lose much more than before (more like 20/80) :(

Not sure what to do about that... Books are coming their way (I ordered Chess strategy by Seirawan, Understanging Openings by Emms and S. polgar's tactic book for champs). I take notes, play them on my chess boards etc... But it's very frustrating to be unable to make good use of this (very basic) knowledge without completly changing his playing style :(

Does anyone had this feeling once? Does anyone have some advice :)??


Cheers

You see my friend, the problem.. is not that you got worse. Because you didn't. The problem is :  thinking you were playing good. Many 1000 rated players have the same illusion. Oh last month i was  " stable"1080 but now i am back at 1020. What is going on...

Chill out, smoke a cigarrete and accept the fact you, your friend too are pretty good patzers and everything will be fine again.

If you want to improve observer how strong players are playing and try to understand why, analyze with engine it will show you imidiately why a certain move is bad, solve tactics and play as much as you can.

Tobacco lobby for real...

Fedec

I'm the worst at chess tongue.png never thought I was good happy.png But i love to learn something as challenging as this. Yesterday I was a little pissed. Now i'm fine. Just going to work on my basics again! Is there a way to have a regular playing partner on the site (or live, but that i'll find once i start in club) happy.png every time i play somebody different with different style (wich isn't a bad thing) but i'd love to talk chess seriously with someone about my level or better (now, better players must want to player somebody like me) 

thegreat_patzer

at least one author points out that when we learn, we often "strain" to put in place new knowledge and that this causes new problems.

 

this seems reasonable in my experience.  the answer seems clear, play through it.  become comfortable with new material to the point that you are able to remember basic stuff about your game, like keeping your peices safe and watching out for tactics, and hanging peices.

 

this is also why I think its important NOT to try to study too much; and to learn too much at once.   its surely better to learn a something new, rather than many things and become confused, bewildered, or stressed.

 

---

also another reason why your chess improvement program must be tweaked from time to time.   are you doing too much or too little?   are you playing (rather than studying) too much or too little?

Fedec

I'll. I'll only read the books that have been advised on a other topics that concentrate on solid basics (In order of read: Weapons of chess, understanding chess opening by Emms, tactics for champs by Polgar and finaly Seirawan's strategy book). Not more. It was a mistake to read Amateur's mind, like a said earlier (understood it but can't apply it well yet since i have huge basics leaks).

Don't think i'm doing to much. But i clearly don't play enough. I play 5 to 8 games a week online. That's because i don't enjoy playing online as much. I lose the social fun of it (touching my pawns, looking at my adversary  trying to think what i thinks by the way he is looking his pieces etc...) and that's why i'd love to have a regular playing partner online.

lofina_eidel_ismail
Fedec wrote:

I'm the worst at chess  never thought I was good  But i love to learn something as challenging as this. Yesterday I was a little pissed. Now i'm fine. Just going to work on my basics again! Is there a way to have a regular playing partner on the site (or live, but that i'll find once i start in club)  every time i play somebody different with different style (wich isn't a bad thing) but i'd love to talk chess seriously with someone about my level or better (now, better players must want to player somebody like me) 

you could join a beginner/learning group (on here)? 

jambyvedar

It is very common that when you try something new, your play suffers becuase you are still learning/assimilating from it. This can happen to other things as well like golf, tennis, basketball etc. I believe Amature's Mind is advance to be a first strategy/positional book. Yeah try reading the books in the order you listed.

Fedec
lofina_eidel_ismail a écrit :
Fedec wrote:

I'm the worst at chess  never thought I was good  But i love to learn something as challenging as this. Yesterday I was a little pissed. Now i'm fine. Just going to work on my basics again! Is there a way to have a regular playing partner on the site (or live, but that i'll find once i start in club)  every time i play somebody different with different style (wich isn't a bad thing) but i'd love to talk chess seriously with someone about my level or better (now, better players must want to player somebody like me) 

you could join a beginner/learning group (on here)? 

That's a great idea i didn't even consider it! I've sent a request to the Bear Club (for elo players of 1400 or less)

lofina_eidel_ismail

@Fedec

I'd a similar sentiment on "Amateur's Mind"

I dropped that book too... ....

BlackLionOrangutnKid

Lots of great advice given.  Here's my 2 cents...

1) Every single time, JUST BEFORE you move, envision the piece where you intend to move it, then ask yourself, "can he take my piece there?"  Every single time!  ;-)  Your hanging pieces will drop way off. 

2) Those 3 books you mentioned before?   Great books.  Some of the reading will be over your head as you're just getting started (not being arrogant, they were over my head too and parts still are)  So read them again and again later as you improve.  The tactics book by Polgar is really good.  After puzzles 15 they get harder and after 20 they get even harder.  You might consider just reading the first 15 of each chapter, then quickly do them again, the same day.  That'll help ingrain them in your brain.  Try to do 30 to 40 a day.  Less than that and you're not getting full benefit...More and you go into overload and don't learn as well.  Doing say, the first 12 of 3 different chapters is a good idea.  That way you're learning 3 different type of tactics.  Then remember, do them over the same day!  It should take much less time the 2nd time.  Don't fret if they don't come quickly the 2nd time though.  Do them the 2nd time before moving to a diff. chapter.

A month from now, if you do the above 2 things, you'll be much better than you were before.

Side Note:  One of the best kept secret poker books is called Ninja Poker on A mazon.  The one with the yellow cover and animals sitting around the table.  It talks about Limit, but 90% or more applies to No Limit too.  Read the blurb on it.

Good luck!  I mean, good skill!   

Fedec

Again, some great advise!

Tkx for ninja poker :D I've my fair share of poker books (i've sold quite a bit now) and coaching videos. I was a decent winner and were able to make a living of MTT's and 60$ HU turbo sng (some 100$ too). I'll keep the book in mind ;)

 cheers

BlackLionOrangutnKid

Okay, great.  Nice thing about chess, it's IMHO, 99% skill, unlike poker.  In poker, you can be 90% ahead in the hand, shove it all in, and some schmuck who isn't anywhere near as good as you, will suck out and win the whole pot. 

    I'm going through the Polgar tactics book right now and it's already helping.   I didn't believe people when they said practice your tactics, for the first 2 years, but see now that's one of the, if not THE, fastest way to improve your game.   Go slowly on them and really understand them before moving to the next one.  You could even just do the first 10 problems in each chapter and then do them again, as the first run through the book.   They get pretty tough.  I've ordered another tactics book too and will go through both.  The thing about Polgar's book, you kinda KNOW what to look for, since each chapter is a special kind of tactic.  Look for a tactics book also, that has them mixed up.

johnyoudell

Don't read books or study until you can stop hanging pieces.  Just play and build up your experience and familiarity with the game.

Do play back over a game every now and then and look for the occasions when you hung a piece or a pawn and ask yourself why you didn't see that it would be taken.  Maybe you get in a hurry or fixated on a particular plan and fail to exercise care.  Or maybe you have a blind spot or three - for example I find that it is easier for me to overlook a capture when the enemy piece making the capture is moving back towards its own side of the board rather than forewards towards me.  Or maybe you just don't yet easily see the squares attacked by knights. Or whatever.

I agree that increasing your familiarity with the opening principles will help and the Exeter club page does have some good material.  Spend ten minutes on that once, then go back and spend another ten minutes a month later.

I also agree that a few minutes regularly spent with the tactics trainer is good, I can't decide whether ignoring the timer is a good idea or not.  Perhaps for an improver it is.

Altogether don't be in a rush.  Chess is rather a satisfying game as improvement, while slow, comes along fairly constantly for as long as you play.  I am a bit better to-day, at sixty seven, than I was at fifty.  The rate of improvement slows a bit with age but it has not seemed to me to be the type of game where you plateau out for a lengthy period before making an advance.  Rather experience seems little by little to help decision making and gradually helps you appreciate more of the possibilities in the position.

Fedec
johnyoudell a écrit :

Maybe you get in a hurry or fixated on a particular plan and fail to exercise care.  Or maybe you have a blind spot or three - for example I find that it is easier for me to overlook a capture when the enemy piece making the capture is moving back towards its own side of the board rather than forewards towards me.

You're exactly right. This is a major leak that has to be trained. I read books not because i feel the need to but because i learn better from it than from pure experience (always have been like this).
BUT i tend to read too much too fast! That'll i avoid now. I just finished Weapons Of Chess (advised as easy first book for me). I took some great lessons from it. But there's one that might seem evident or "easy" for some of you that actualy already helps me (have to play more games to confirm it). It said:

When you analyse a move, be methodolical.
1. If it's your turn, be specific and concrete. What is he threating? If he's threating something is it protected? What can i do to protect it? Do i have a far better threat? If no threat, can i threat? and so far and so far.

2. If it's his turn, let your mind wander on the whole board/situation.
Ask your self general question to look for the big picture. Are there weaknesses (by him or myself)? Are they exploitable? What are his (and my) strenght? Is there positional threats? and so far and so far.

Analyse your position, then create a plan.

BlackLionOrangutnKid

What other forum??

 

jambyvedar
Fedec wrote:
johnyoudell a écrit :

Maybe you get in a hurry or fixated on a particular plan and fail to exercise care.  Or maybe you have a blind spot or three - for example I find that it is easier for me to overlook a capture when the enemy piece making the capture is moving back towards its own side of the board rather than forewards towards me.

You're exactly right. This is a major leak that has to be trained. I read books not because i feel the need to but because i learn better from it than from pure experience (always have been like this).
BUT i tend to read too much too fast! That'll i avoid now. I just finished Weapons Of Chess (advised as easy first book for me). I took some great lessons from it. But there's one that might seem evident or "easy" for some of you that actualy already helps me (have to play more games to confirm it). It said:

When you analyse a move, be methodolical.
1. If it's your turn, be specific and concrete. What is he threating? If he's threating something is it protected? What can i do to protect it? Do i have a far better threat? If no threat, can i threat? and so far and so far.

2. If it's his turn, let your mind wander on the whole board/situation.
Ask your self general question to look for the big picture. Are there weaknesses (by him or myself)? Are they exploitable? What are his (and my) strenght? Is there positional threats? and so far and so far.

Analyse your position, then create a plan.

Does the book has an example for this? Along with these words, it will be more usefull if there are example games for this.

The number 1 thinking is all about tactical possibility. A simple example, let say your opponent's threat is to capture your queen. But you have a mate in two threat. Of course you will proceed with your threat.

2. Is easy to say, but hard to execute if you don't have much strategical and tactical pattern knowlegde. It is easy to say find a weakness. But you might be scratching your head thinking how do I know what is a weakness?

 

To address these problem, accumulation of pattern knowledge is essential. You can get these knowledge from books,videos and studying many master games.

Fedec
TheSonOfSorrow82 a écrit :

The reality is that a large percentage of games on here feature cheating. That's why all the serious chess is played on the other servers: They actually do something about cheating. Chess.com only pretends to.

If you would have read a little about my posts, you can tell that i'm mostly speaking about live games. My friend can be a dick but he's definitely not a cheater.

Jambyvedar: They didn't put examples of games or sequences but more of situations
On the only diagram they show a simple threat of a white pawn against a black knight. There is a possibility for black to give a check with a bishop but it'll be easily countered by threatening this piece with a pawn and so black would suddenly have to deal with a double threat.

BlackLionOrangutnKid

Yep, just keep playing the slower, longer games Fedec and the hanging pieces will mostly stop occurring...it's VERY normal for that to happen at first, to EVERYone.  You'll see.  Have you learned the Fried Liver Attack yet? 

Fedec

I do know it, and played it a couple of times. But i haven't gone in depth in it. I just liked the aggressive option of sacrificing my knight against a pawn and taking away the ability of opponent to castle. But i still try to stay away (for now) from more advanced opening line. I really really want to solidify my game first. I'm starting Discovering Chess Openings by Emms today happy.png

BlackLionOrangutnKid

Good that you know it.  Was just going to say, if someone tries it on YOU?  Look at the Traxler Counter Attack on You Tube . . . you will love when someone tries the Fried Liver Attk against you.