Points should be different for white compared with black

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DasBurner
agaprni wrote:

DaBabyy I completely agree with your point. Yes I am a troll. This has all been trolling. I am sorry. I was bored, and had nothing to do. Please forgive me. I legitimately do not agree with the ops point that points should be changed, but I see that factually there is a difference.

you want some movie/tv series/game recommendations?

agaprni
DaBabysSideTing wrote:
agaprni wrote:

DaBabyy I completely agree with your point. Yes I am a troll. This has all been trolling. I am sorry. I was bored, and had nothing to do. Please forgive me. I legitimately do not agree with the ops point that points should be changed, but I see that factually there is a difference.

you want some movie/tv series/game recommendations?

Not right now. I have been watching SVU and Organized Crime. I also don’t mind rewatching Phineas and Ferb, a true classic. But thanks for the offer. Please I beg you not to ban me. If you want, you may adopt me, and I will learn to become a SUGE like you.

MrIndia
Soniasthetics wrote:

This idea is pointless because usually in tournaments and in competitive play like the world chess championships, or candidate tournaments etc, you alternate between colours, and you often play against the same person multiple times, obviously with different colours, so this points system isn't necessary. 

 

Is having the 1st move an advantage? yes.

Is it quantifiable enough to warrant a white win not being as earned as a black win? no. 

 

I believe OP is asking for this system at this site only where your color is random (in live games)

drmrboss
Soniasthetics wrote:

This idea is pointless because usually in tournaments and in competitive play like the world chess championships, or candidate tournaments etc, you alternate between colours, and you often play against the same person multiple times, obviously with different colours, so this points system isn't necessary. 

 

Is having the 1st move an advantage? yes.

Is it quantifiable enough to warrant a white win not being as earned as a black win? no. 

 

Red Gril is not impressed!!

lfPatriotGames

I thought there were already allowances in place to accomodate the advantage white has. Not just alternating colors, but also tie breaks where a draw equals a win for black, with white having more time. So far that seems to be working out pretty well to keep things even. 

DasBurner
NickGamingOnYT wrote:

Here is what a gm says regarding this topic very interesting https://youtu.be/3VfC-t6tUT8 .

if you're not getting views on your channel, it's just because your videos aren't good. stop spamming your videos everywhere, no one cares

DasBurner
NickGamingOnYT wrote:
DaBabysSideTing wrote:
NickGamingOnYT wrote:

Here is what a gm says regarding this topic very interesting https://youtu.be/3VfC-t6tUT8 .

if you're not getting views on your channel, it's just because your videos aren't good. stop spamming your videos everywhere, no one cares

My videos are good, the views tell. This is a GM seriously.

i sincerely hope chess.com realizes you're spamming very soon

DasBurner

i think he literally just got banned lol

DasBurner

conspiracy theories being thrown around now!! entertainment

DasBurner
karmester wrote:
ChesswithNickolay schreef:
karmester wrote:
ChesswithNickolay schreef:

No, this is not my main. He is a friend who wanted to help me with my channel by putting it in clubs.

And you're both named Nick ?...

I am Nickolay a russian name. He is Nick, not a russian name.

In your 'My YouTube Channels' post, you said that the channel was yours:

 

It's the exact same channel advertised on the (now banned) "NickGamingOnYT" account. But now it's "your friend's" channel ?

: O

AunTheKnight
Optimissed wrote:
AunTheKnight wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
llama47 wrote:

It's not a bad idea... it's somehow... how to say it... overly exact for people to ever do it, but I think it's a reasonable enough idea.

Chess is still chess. Scoring isn't part of the game, so individual leagues would be able to alter scoring in any case. But it wouldn't be the same game, so not such a good idea.

Rating doesn't stop chess from being chess though... it would still be the same game if you altered the rating a little bit, right?

No, not right. Football was changed out of all recognition by the three points for a win system. In that case it was probably changed for the better. In any case, we are talking about individual leagues here aren't we?

I see. My bad.

IsraeliGal
Optimissed wrote:
MrIndia wrote:
Soniasthetics wrote:

This idea is pointless because usually in tournaments and in competitive play like the world chess championships, or candidate tournaments etc, you alternate between colours, and you often play against the same person multiple times, obviously with different colours, so this points system isn't necessary. 

 

Is having the 1st move an advantage? yes.

Is it quantifiable enough to warrant a white win not being as earned as a black win? no. 

 

I believe OP is asking for this system at this site only where your color is random (in live games)

I'm sure I just won four or five consecutive games with black at blitz. It evens out, though, fairly well. Anyway, to get more points, I could filter out or refuse all whites couldn't I. And that would be cheating.

yeah.

What the OP and others forgot is that there are variables to this. It's not just the first move that can be considered an advantage. it's also what kind of playstyles are matching up, who's a stronger player, etc. Plus also black is the one that dictates what opening will be played so its not like whites first move is just a clearcut move advantage. 

 

llama47

I'm surprised at how many people are disagreeing for completely irrelevant reasons. Apparently very few people understand what the rating system is, what it aspires to be, how it works, etc.

ninjaswat

I believe it's simply that white gets to choose what prep to go into, and can do some offbeat things. That combined with having the initiative is enough sometimes, but white doesn't have a real advantage... at least not quantifiable.

llama47
ninjaswat wrote:

I believe it's simply that white gets to choose what prep to go into, and can do some offbeat things. That combined with having the initiative is enough sometimes, but white doesn't have a real advantage... at least not quantifiable.

It's been quantified a number of times in this topic already.

So I'll add to my list that people may not understand the impact of moving first.

ninjaswat
llama47 wrote:
ninjaswat wrote:

I believe it's simply that white gets to choose what prep to go into, and can do some offbeat things. That combined with having the initiative is enough sometimes, but white doesn't have a real advantage... at least not quantifiable.

It's been quantified a number of times in this topic already.

So I'll add to my list that people may not understand the impact of moving first.

... I didn't read the entire thing, sorry, so I'm not very enlightened right now. Also, my winrate is higher with black than with white so use that evidence as you will.

llama47

I also have a higher winrate with black.

I don't think that matters though. That would be like arguing "I should win more / lose less points in _____ opening because I personally play it well/poorly" -- that doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I disagree with too many people in this topic and on too fundamental a level to want to post here.

locoturbo

Yes I was referring to the random pairings on here.

Saying "it evens out in random matchups" isn't a valid argument, because you could make the same argument with respect to random opponents being higher or lower rating than you. But  in that case chess.com doesn't say "dude whatever it will eventually even out" and make every single match +8/-8. Instead it changes the win/loss points accordingly to the rating. Therefore it makes sense to also change it based on black/white. So when determining win/loss points, treat the person with white as if they were slightly higher than their real rating. Done.

drmrboss
MisterLoco76 wrote:

Yes I was referring to the random pairings on here.

Saying "it evens out in random matchups" isn't a valid argument, because you could make the same argument with respect to random opponents being higher or lower rating than you. But  in that case chess.com doesn't say "dude whatever it will eventually even out" and make every single match +8/-8. Instead it changes the win/loss points accordingly to the rating. Therefore it makes sense to also change it based on black/white. So when determining win/loss points, treat the person with white as if they were slightly higher than their real rating. Done.

Most serious critical on you is probably @Soniasthetics.  Try to convince her first and let us see.

locoturbo
drmrboss wrote:
 

Most serious critical on you is probably @Soniasthetics.  Try to convince her first and let us see.

She referenced tournament situations where colors are cycled (not the situation here) and ignored all the relevant data people posted, showing white's advantage. But maybe you're right she should be addressed, since she wrote:

"This idea is pointless because usually in tournaments and in competitive play like the world chess championships, or candidate tournaments etc, you alternate between colours..."

So then... why do they alternate colors in tournaments? QED