polish game question

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Avatar of psyduck

in the polish game, when white plays f4, it's understood that black cannot take because it opens his rook to attack, but it also opens up some attacking lines for black. I'm asking who you (or fritz) think has the advantage in this position. or have I made some oversight to get to this position?

 

Avatar of rooperi

This is good for White, I play this line everytime that Black co-operates.

In fact, I think this is so good, it can be played a tempo down, that is why I started experimenting with 1... b5 as a reply to 1 e4.

Ok, I'm joking, but only sort of...

Avatar of psyduck

wow, thanks for the very informative answer. I plugged it into my chess engine (and by that I mean my head). It's not easy, but it is a win for white. gotta move kf2 after qxb1+

Avatar of Tarkovsky

I don't have a clue if the tactical line (3...ef4) is any good for either side, so instead how about 3...d6. Now if fe5 de5 Be5 Nf6 we are in a similar position to the normal Polish type position b4 e5 Bb2 Bb4 Be5 Nf6 etc except white no longer has a f pawn and black no d pawn, black is much better developed and the missing f pawn is likely to be more of a weakness than strength. I'd say better chances for black, but again I don't have a clue for the tactical line, but then if d6 is indeed good then it wouldn't be necessary.

Avatar of rooperi

Of course, Black has a neat little trap :)

Avatar of psyduck

3...d6 is the best move, i agree, and it puts white at a disadvantage. I just didn't completely understand why exf4 was a bad move before

Avatar of Blackadder

...of course,  since 2.Bxb4 isn't going to be played by the majority of players, the whole line is dubious...

some analysis of my own (no computers) I think f4 is perfectly playable, but I dont see why black would play Bxb4 in the first place.

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Avatar of rooperi
Blackadder wrote:

...of course,  since 2.Bxb4 isn't going to be played by the majority of players, the whole line is dubious...

some analysis of my own (no computers) I think f4 is perfectly playable, but I dont see why black would play Bxb4 in the first place.

:

Actually, Bxb4 is the most common continuation.

Avatar of Tarkovsky
Blackadder wrote:

...of course,  since 2.Bxb4 isn't going to be played by the majority of players, the whole line is dubious...

some analysis of my own (no computers) I think f4 is perfectly playable, but I dont see why black would play Bxb4 in the first place.


I have seen the Bb4 line recommended in many different places by top players, giving the position after b4 e5 Bb2 Bb4 Be5 Nf6 as being favourable to black. It is pretty much the only line I have seen played against me in the few times I have played b4, the highest rated player against me was around 2000. My database is massively in favour of black in the variation with players as high as 2631 playing it, not sure how dubious that is.

Avatar of Blackadder

I havent studied this opening (any opening, for that matter)... accepting a b for e pawn trade simply looking unintuitive to me. but, I'm willing to accept the possibility I might be wrong. 

But in anycase, isnt 1...d5 more popular than 1...e5?   

Avatar of rooperi
Blackadder wrote:

I havent studied this opening (any opening, for that matter)... accepting a b for e pawn trade simply looking unintuitive to me. but, I'm willing to accept the possibility I might be wrong. 

But in anycase, isnt 1...d5 more popular than 1...e5?   


I find d5 the hardest to play against, but the stronger the opposition the more likely they are to play e5.

Lately it has become fashionable to play 1 ... c6 and 2 ... Qb6

Avatar of jarkov

I know Lev Alburts black book recommends 2..Bxb4. they dont even give an idea for what to do against f4.. In the shredder GM db I cheked out the games after 1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4  and there were 46 3.Bxe5 and only 1 3.f4, a loss. here is that game, looks like a solid way to beat it

Avatar of jarkov

Avatar of starswarm

The Polish is an interesting opening, and this gambit line is probably the most playable variation of it. I suggest that you don't play the Bxb4 line in the first place, even though e4 is a good first move, but you should follow up by strengthening the e-pawn after he attacks.