Ratings is the sole reason we play

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Avatar of erikido23
socket2me wrote:
larrychessman41 wrote:

Hey I just started playing chess I'm trying to get the points so that I can become one of the true chess players so to me yes points do matter


 Yes, it gives everyone of every ability goals to reach.  Ratings shouldn't make you lose sleep at night, but ratings DO give some people feelings of satisfaction and motivation to improve.  A 1000 player wants to reach 1200, a 1600 wants a 1800, etc etc.


 Agreed, but that is not sole motivation.  I personally get more out of the beautiful combination or positional sacrifice than the few extra rating points which I gained from them.  

 

Although, of course, I am thrilled when my rating is going up.  I just noticed I actually reached the top 5% in terms of rating on chess.com.  That does give me a great sense of accomplishment. 

Avatar of Kernicterus

richie and oprah...that would certainly explain why some people really want to inflate it a bit.  Perhaps they feel better about how they look?

Avatar of J_Piper
AfafBouardi wrote:
socket2me wrote:
AfafBouardi wrote:

alright, I'll divulge it, but don't let it leave this thread.  pssst...I have this fetish for beating boys at things.  The look of a boy getting schooled by a girl in ping pong, tennis, chess...whatever...is priceless.  So I need to get a lot better so I can do it more frequently.  Blame it on my dad.  


 A "boy" who is insecure will be upset to lose to a girl.  I lost to a girl yesterday at chess, but I also beat her a few days earlier.  Her rating was in the mid 1900's and was my best win. 

There is no problem losing to a girl at chess. 


As far back as I can remember, boys (in general) make a big deal about losing to a girl.  At university, if I was beating a string of boys at racquetball or ping pong, boys would gather and hoot at my opponent with obnoxious comments like "damn, he's getting torn up by a girl"...sure, I'd shoot dirty looks at them...but the reality is, my competitive side gets an extra kick out of it...and chess is a game I especially enjoy beating boys at...especially unsuspecting boys who aren't even really "chess players" but who randomly end up offering a game of chess.  It happens a lot.  :)  Sometimes it's as if they can't believe we have brains or interests outside of shopping.


 Sounds like you wish you were a man.

Avatar of peterkirby

I think you can make a number of arguments for why people will play chess online. It could be partly to feel satisfied in a higher score, but there is also the satisfaction of the individual matchup win or draw, the entertainment value of exercising your brain on an abstract problem, and the joy of seeing a plan to fruition in a game... just to name a few.

Where you really see the competitive streak come out (for that small percentage of chess players who do see it) is rated OTB chess. For these players this is the only "real number" that counts (not Yahoo! Chess, chess.com, FICS, or anything else). And they will see it as a real loss if they go to a rated tournament and see their rating go down. And it is... they most likely paid to enter, and they pay an annual due to be in any of them. The only other concrete reason to play in OTB tournaments is the cash prize.

As for playing against the computer... I do that too. They can be programmed to make a variable number of random "mistakes" per game and to have a range of intelligence settings as well as priorities (positional vs material, types of positional advantages to value, material to prefer). As cheap a program as the USD$20 "Chessmaster XI" has the most convenient setup (in my opinion) for doing this for players rated 500 to 2000. Only the very best will need to make bigger investments in a regular computer opponent to improve their game. I prefer the computer opponent to live chess online most of the time (I can make it play in just a few seconds per turn...and I truly know what I am up against every time), but I do play correspondence chess online.

Avatar of Doctorjosephthomas

I would love to meet a really strong female player who could teach me some new ideas.

Avatar of Kernicterus

Um...which part sounds like that?  Maybe you're projecting your own weird ideas onto me.  If anything, maybe I wish I didn't have to be reminded that I'm part of a group expected to suck at thingsl every time I partake in an activity.  If a black person enjoyed doing better than a white person at something he'd been made to feel he couldn't do as well...would that mean he wanted to be white?  Is that your logic?

Avatar of peterkirby
Doctorjosephthomas wrote:

I would love to meet a really strong female player who could teach me some new ideas.


Are we still talking about chess? Tongue out

Avatar of peterkirby

AfafBouardi, kudos on you for wanting to get better at chess! There is already headway being made by stars, like the Polgar sisters, at the highest levels. But it's good to see advancement of women in chess at every level. I do know that I always am glad to see women at chess tournaments... women and not just girls. It seems that the attrition rate for chess players going from adolescence to adulthood is greater among females (i.e., I see a higher proportion of girls to boys than women to men). So I welcome more competition from intelligent women.

Avatar of J_Piper
richie_and_oprah wrote:
socket2me wrote:
AfafBouardi wrote:
socket2me wrote:
AfafBouardi wrote:

alright, I'll divulge it, but don't let it leave this thread.  pssst...I have this fetish for beating boys at things.  The look of a boy getting schooled by a girl in ping pong, tennis, chess...whatever...is priceless.  So I need to get a lot better so I can do it more frequently.  Blame it on my dad.  


 A "boy" who is insecure will be upset to lose to a girl.  I lost to a girl yesterday at chess, but I also beat her a few days earlier.  Her rating was in the mid 1900's and was my best win. 

There is no problem losing to a girl at chess. 


As far back as I can remember, boys (in general) make a big deal about losing to a girl.  At university, if I was beating a string of boys at racquetball or ping pong, boys would gather and hoot at my opponent with obnoxious comments like "damn, he's getting torn up by a girl"...sure, I'd shoot dirty looks at them...but the reality is, my competitive side gets an extra kick out of it...and chess is a game I especially enjoy beating boys at...especially unsuspecting boys who aren't even really "chess players" but who randomly end up offering a game of chess.  It happens a lot.  :)  Sometimes it's as if they can't believe we have brains or interests outside of shopping.


 Sounds like you wish you were a man.


I don't get that vibe at all.


I'm not questioning her orientation, but I'm curious to why she gets a kick out of beating "boys", but hates it when people snicker when she beats "boys."  It's completely contradictive to me.

It's funny because she has mentioned racquetball, tennis, and ping pong, which were all sports/activities  I grew up on as a kid through high school.  I really don't think anyone would snicker at me if she beat me at those activities, rather what they would be doing is praising her and would receive more respect.  Nothing what she said above impresses me.  She sounds like a softball player to me.

Avatar of Chessroshi

Let me hit you with a little though ok? What is the purpose of a rating? A rating, in theory, will indicate the strength of a player. If I play a 2300 rated player, their quality of play should be better than that of a 1300 player. So, in theory, the reason that rating matters is because it is a mark of our skill level. The thing I think we would like to do is to play with skill. I think that's why so many people pull the 'cheat' card or do stall tactics any time they lose or are losing to a lower rated player. Don't get too stuck on ratings. What players should really seek out is quality chess. I could play crap against my computer on expert and maybe get a fluke win, but I'd feel much better playing solid, precise moves against a 1500 rated player and winning. Let ratings be what they are, a guide to chess strength. They are nothing more important than that.

Avatar of J_Piper
Chessroshi wrote:

Let me hit you with a little though ok? What is the purpose of a rating? A rating, in theory, will indicate the strength of a player. If I play a 2300 rated player, their quality of play should be better than that of a 1300 player. So, in theory, the reason that rating matters is because it is a mark of our skill level. The thing I think we would like to do is to play with skill. I think that's why so many people pull the 'cheat' card or do stall tactics any time they lose or are losing to a lower rated player. Don't get too stuck on ratings. What players should really seek out is quality chess. I could play crap against my computer on expert and maybe get a fluke win, but I'd feel much better playing solid, precise moves against a 1500 rated player and winning. Let ratings be what they are, a guide to chess strength. They are nothing more important than that.


 Ratings are a feeling of accomplishment, not the demise of people.

Avatar of J_Piper
richie_and_oprah wrote:
socket2me wrote:

I'm not questioning her orientation, but I'm curious to why she gets a kick out of beating "boys", but hates it when people snicker when she beats "boys."  It's completely contradictive to me.

It's funny because she has mentioned racquetball, tennis, and ping pong, which were all sports/activities  I grew up on as a kid through high school.  I really don't think anyone would snicker at me if she beat me at those activities, rather what they would be doing is praising her and would receive more respect.  Nothing what she said above impresses me.  She sounds like a softball player to me.


I am not sure it was designed or posted to "impress" you.

I happen to understand her position and empathsize.  I fear any explanation I would give would be insufficient and might only cause a rift, so I will leave it sit here and try to get back to chess ratings.

Which I myself am not happy to be defined by, but subserviently accept that I am.


 This topic is on the wrong direction and I meant it to be about ratings.

Avatar of Kernicterus
socket2me wrote:

I'm not questioning her orientation, but I'm curious to why she gets a kick out of beating "boys", but hates it when people snicker when she beats "boys."  It's completely contradictive to me.

It's funny because she has mentioned racquetball, tennis, and ping pong, which were all sports/activities  I grew up on as a kid through high school.  I really don't think anyone would snicker at me if she beat me at those activities, rather what they would be doing is praising her and would receive more respect.  Nothing what she said above impresses me.  She sounds like a softball player to me.


I'm really beginning to think you're beyond a simple-minded sort.  I got plenty of respect for my wins...at the same time, people would in fact snicker at boys for losing - this is a reality that you seem to be clueless about.  This is also a constant reminder that you're not expected to do as well as boys at things.  Secondly, nobody was trying to impress you.  And I don't play softball - I don't even know what kind of insult you're aiming for with that comment.  I was on a swim team and I played soccer at high school and university.  My father played soccer at a national level and made certain that we weren't cheerleading on the side for boys - since he only had 2 daughters to work with.

Whatever you may think your particular experience is - may not be what others are experiencing.  The ignorance of "you sound like you want to be a man" is telling enough about your nature.  It's putrid.  

Avatar of ozzie_c_cobblepot

Yes, I care a lot about my rating. My FIDE rating. I enjoy playing here but I don't mind losing games here at all. If I cared only about my rating I would put a lot more effort into scouting my opponents, I would probably never play tournaments, and so on and so forth.

I want a FIDE 2300 rating so I can get a nice shiny FM next to my name. Forever. No matter how bad I play.

At that point I could even play 1.e4 e5 2.f4 from the black side against Gonnosuke in a USCF tournament!

Avatar of Theempiremaker
richie_and_oprah wrote:
Theempiremaker wrote:

 Your play itself will determine your appreciation of the contest not a rating score.


I think that is one way to be about ratings, but I am not sure it applies to others if they choose it to not.

There are many barometers and litmus tests and measuring sticks but claiming anyone of them should or should not be more significant to others is pretentious.

The rating is not trying to be an "appreciation of a contest."

It is the measured result of one's performance.


The true result of a game of chess is win lose or draw. Your point is well taken regarding forms of ratings and their significance but my performance related to the result of my play is most important to me than the ratings of this site. The topic of the post took the assumption that the sole reason for play here is for ratings points, for some players it's probably so, for me it's the game .

Avatar of erikido23
socket2me wrote:
Chessroshi wrote:

Let me hit you with a little though ok? What is the purpose of a rating? A rating, in theory, will indicate the strength of a player. If I play a 2300 rated player, their quality of play should be better than that of a 1300 player. So, in theory, the reason that rating matters is because it is a mark of our skill level. The thing I think we would like to do is to play with skill. I think that's why so many people pull the 'cheat' card or do stall tactics any time they lose or are losing to a lower rated player. Don't get too stuck on ratings. What players should really seek out is quality chess. I could play crap against my computer on expert and maybe get a fluke win, but I'd feel much better playing solid, precise moves against a 1500 rated player and winning. Let ratings be what they are, a guide to chess strength. They are nothing more important than that.


 Ratings are a feeling of accomplishment, not the demise of people.


 I didn't think he implied that.  I thought he just implied that ratings are simply a reflection (although an imperfect reflection of course)of relative skill level. 

 Of course it doesn't tell you that you are skilled at tactics and poor in endgame play.  One of the big reasons I have little interest in my rating (other than "proof" to players who I would like to teach that I have some valuable information that aren't sure).  If my endgame understanding goes up my rating will or  eventually should go up.  If my rating goes up my skill level has not necessarily actually gone up. 

 

I found it the same in school.  The more I tried to learn and forgot about what grade I was getting the better I did.  The more my focus shifted to getting an A or whatever my goal grade was the worst I did. 

 

Study, play, reassess what I actually "learned" rinse, lather and repeat.  Then watch more difficult opponents having a more difficult time with me and in turn my rating going up. 

Avatar of J_Piper

Simple mindedness has never been my problem.  In fact, a lot of people think I'm too deep.  As far as intellectual ability, I won't say always the diplomatic answer.  I sometimes stir the pot.  You come across to me as an unsettled woman.  Your brash, and your text comes in hot.  People probably snickered to the other boys because of the way you ACT and represent yourself.

I am not simple enough to be able to understand how much of an unpleasant woman you portray yourself.  The text speaks volumes of you, and being the intelligent person I (sometimes) am I can see your flaws... and when I see flaws I respond to it.

* Softball player isn't an insult, the girls I knew growing up were strong women... I was actually making a compliment, but your women's Lib got in the way of the compliment. 

Avatar of Kernicterus

Unsettled woman?  lol.  You really are mindless...I'm sure of it now.  I've watched you countless times jump to outrageous conclusions and then apologize for them but this takes the cake.  I'm quite subtle in person and it's hard for me to believe anyone would think my quiet unobtrusive way of playing ping pong is what got boys riled up to criticize and smirk at my opponents or to compliment my dribbling skills as "whoa, you're the best girl player I've met".  lol.  I don't know if anyone has actually ever called you deep but I know they've never called you logical.  You're too presumptuous and you conjure too many nonsensical things.   If you had intended softball to be a compliment, you wouldn't have given context clues which suggest it is the opposite of something to be impressed with.  Someone should teach you how to stitch your thoughts.  It would do you good.

I suppose I should assume "you sound like you want to be a man" as a compliment as well?

Avatar of peterkirby

Cultural differences got in the way. Softball is not played much in Morocco. And... um, softball is opposed to baseball, in the U.S., as the edition for girls and children. "Men play hardball" is not an exact phrase I have heard, but I'd be surprised if it's never been said.

Avatar of Kernicterus
peterkirby wrote:

Cultural differences got in the way. Softball is not played much in Morocco. And... um, softball is opposed to baseball, in the U.S., as the edition for girls and children. "Men play hardball" is not an exact phrase I have heard, but I'd be surprised if it's never been said.


Peter dear, it's not a phrase anyone has ever heard.  I know Americana and Americanisms better than our little socket friend.  Morocco having nothing to do with it.  :)