Relationship between Chess rating and I.Q?

  • #301
    vidhan wrote:

    my IQ is 100 according to the online test i just gave but my rating is 1400 (IQ = 40) how is tht possible

    you didn't get it the notion says that the your maximum possible elo is 2000

    with sufficient work you could get your elo close to 2000 and if you compare how many chess games you have played compared to a GM you will prabobly find that you haven't even reached 1% of what a GM has played in his life.

    simply keep practicing and learning from the GM's games and you will certainly pass your top elo good luck.

  • #302
    DavyWilliams wrote:

    IQ x 100 + 1000 =~ top possible rating, with many years of good coaching and study, strong desire and starting young. 

     (  =~ means very closely equal to )

    Simply not true. serious scholarly investigation of this has not yielded any meaningful correlation or suggestion that chess ability is predictive of intelligence or the other way around. There is some evidence that certain aspects of intelligence (such as memory) correlate to performance, but when non-chess specific tests are used, master level players show no better general memory skills than average population groups. 

    Indeed, one very highly cited paper by Bilalic and McLeod from Oxford even found that "It turned out that intelligence was not a significant factor in chess skill, and that, if anything it tended to correlate negatively with chess skill."


     

  • #303

    Chess players BELIEVE they are smarter than the average bear.

    And that might be all we can reasonable say.  But don't let me slow down this exciting thread.  Perish the thought.  Onward Christian Soldiers!

  • #304

    "IQ x 100 + 1000 =~ top possible rating"

    = 100 x 100 + 1000

    = 10000 + 1000

    = 11000

    Person of average intelligence can reach ELO 11000 with enough work!

  • #305

    yes and no. practice makes perfect in chess. the more you play and study the more you learn. i believe intelligence may help help with certain tactical moves or the ability to understand their relevance. one answer= NO.........

  • #306

    Very Strong correlation between chess and intelligence. If you are more intelligent you can become better in chess much faster and easier. It is such a logic based game mathematical really. You will surely never find a GM with a Iq below 100 prolly higher. However never underestimate the power of will and determination can make a great difference.

  • #307
    Cojabo wrote:

    Very Strong correlation between chess and intelligence. If you are more intelligent you can become better in chess much faster and easier. It is such a logic based game mathematical really. You will surely never find a GM with a Iq below 100 prolly higher. However never underestimate the power of will and determination can make a great difference.

    Please provide a citation, because when I read the literature in peer review articles (which I've linked in this thread) the experts who actually review this stuff say otherwise. 



     

  • #308

    Please find a gm or IM with a verified IQ of 85 .... 

  • #309

    Possibly we have this the wrong way around, and it's improving at chess which improves your IQ, as opposed to needing a high IQ in the first place.

    After all, chess teaches concentration, logical and lateral thinking, discipline, creativity, etc.

  • #310
    zxzyz wrote:

    Please find a gm or IM with a verified IQ of 85 .... 

    Has anyone claimed that the population of tournament chess players falls on the same distribution as the average population? 

    No, that claim hasn't been made.

    What has been said is that within the population of tournament chess players, researchers have found no correllation between IQ and chess skill. But that is not the same as saying that there is a no correllation between IQ and being an adult tournament chess player. 

    Is there any reason to suspect that there is a reasonable statistical chance of there being an IM or GM with an IQ of 85?

  • #311

    But that is not the same as saying that there is a no correllation between IQ and being an adult tournament chess player.

    =thats the way it is spinned.

     

    There is a disturbing trend to push the idea that there is no such thing as inherited intelligence and that anyone can be a genius.. Thus anyone can be a GM.IM if they study enough...

    THis is what is being pushed in the media -- everyone is equal --- thus according to this belief there is no relationship between intelligence and chess rating - in fact intelligence is due to environment alone -nothing else -- so no such thing as talent - anyone can develop that.

    Perhaps not on this thread but on a similar thread someone made the argument that anyone can be a genius.

    If this was true -- you just need one verifiable case of an 85 IQ person who is now an im/gm. (or even increased IQ to 100 or above by learning).

    Of course if the person was drunk or did test badly because of other factors it wont count.

  • #312

    @zxzyz, of course intelligence (of various kinds) can be inherited, but it can also be acquired. Slight tangent this, but I don't really understand why there is such an obsession with drawing a clear dividing line between "nature" and "nurture". Surely in reality, they are two sides of the same coin. What is "nature" if not inherited "nurture"? All characteristics of living beings must have evolved into existance at some stage, they can't just drop from the sky.

    As regards the GM with an IQ of 85, I would suggest that even if his IQ was 85 before he learned chess, it would be a lot higher by the time he got his GM title, because surely learning about chess also improves your general intelligence. It improves and develops your mind.

  • #313

    The relationship between my chess rating and my IQ have some ups and downs. It was down right rocky in the past, but things are looking up...

  • #314

    who cares....

  • #315

    wow... who sounds really nice...

  • #316

    the first step to knowing anything is the realization of the thought that we really know nothing if we cannot explain everything. just a thought.... no offense to anyone who believes they are a genius....

  • #317

    The first step in knowing is realizing you are aware and questioning it and what it is and then being convicted by the totality of that reality.... then you jump more into what you were getting at, but it is a little different than what you proposed....

  • #318
    zxzyz wrote:

    But that is not the same as saying that there is a no correllation between IQ and being an adult tournament chess player.

    =thats the way it is spinned.

     

    There is a disturbing trend to push the idea that there is no such thing as inherited intelligence and that anyone can be a genius.. Thus anyone can be a GM.IM if they study enough...

    THis is what is being pushed in the media -- everyone is equal --- thus according to this belief there is no relationship between intelligence and chess rating - in fact intelligence is due to environment alone -nothing else -- so no such thing as talent - anyone can develop that.

    Perhaps not on this thread but on a similar thread someone made the argument that anyone can be a genius.

    If this was true -- you just need one verifiable case of an 85 IQ person who is now an im/gm. (or even increased IQ to 100 or above by learning).

    Of course if the person was drunk or did test badly because of other factors it wont count.

    the consensus is that there is a small correlation. not no correlation. which essentially means you can't accurately or precisely predict someone's iq from their chess playing ability alone. you can only make a very rough estimate. it cannot be used as a verifiable iq test. the sat would give you a much better idea, but even that is not as accurate as a stanford-binet. 

    not everyone will be able to become an IM or GM. but everyone with average intelligence (seems to be widely acknowledged as being 100) will be able to achieve around expert or master---if nothing else is getting in their way.

    I don't know much about how the media spins things, but I do know there is a normal distribution in regards to intelligence. you can google it. the average is 100, SD 15. someone with an iq of 135 would be within the 99th percentile. people with iq's of 150 or above are regarded as possessing "genius level intelligence"---less than 1 percent of the population. 

    in regards to talent, is it just me or does it seem like whenever you ask someone to define exactly what this is what people offer up sounds a lot like what they say when asked to define god? I myself am suspicious of such vagueness, things which cannot be measured.  personally, I regard what people call talent as a combination of several discrete factors working in concert. the most important of which would probably be capacity (iq) and a genuine deeply rooted interest/emotional investment for whatever it is. you combine both those things with a wealthy family  able to secure top notch trainers and you get magnus carlsen. 

    you can readily imagine someone with a relatively high iq, 130-140 or so, who is nevertheless not IM GM material because they lack the temperament and/or don't have much of an interest/emotional investment.  

  • #319
    madhacker wrote:

    "IQ x 100 + 1000 =~ top possible rating"

    = 100 x 100 + 1000

    = 10000 + 1000

    = 11000

    Person of average intelligence can reach ELO 11000 with enough work!

    x 10

  • #320

    exactly my point. thanks nemo. you proved urself wrong or right?

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