Resignation Etiquette

If you look not at the surface of the conflicts but at the issue itself, you could see that I was attacked personally sveral times at Chesscom, without giving a reason. I then could have left immediately, usually I didn't. Because I believe that a person who participates in a discussion has mainly good intentions. ('If you would have kept silent, you were a philosopher'. I am not...)

Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong.

Still boring.

you are right! But it is maybe because all kind of opinions about the resignation attitude have been expressed already....

Still, we could vote...

grimpreaper1973 in post #118 mentioned Kobayashi Maruartfizz cited The Warth of Khan in posting #125Evil_Homer wrote: I think the Kobayashi Maru was mentioned in one of the movies or later series.

Speaking of resignation, I just posted a game of mine in the Analysis forum. My opponent resigned but I don't know why and I am a bit diappointed since I did not get to play through the end game. I thought I was losing  Take a look.

Weakness and Laziness.

Thanks to bianco-pedina for the input.  It has swayed my opinion toward playing toward more endgame, and as a beginner I should be playing more fully.  I always thought 10 or so moves would be decisive but, as pointed out, you never know if an opponent will make a mistake not seeing something you do.  Or, in time games, your opponent loses on time.  I have never even played a timed game yet!  Well, I tried, then forgot it was timed, and lost.  I was at work is my excuse.  :)

Artfizz said:The term 'kobayashi maru' may be a slang term in the 23rd century for a hopeless situation at least in Starfleet culture.

Very true!  All starship captains (not sure if all starfleet OFFICERS, although Kirk's scenario was played out with other officers on the bridge) must face the Kobayashi Maru as one of their "final" exams at Starfleet Academy.

In relation to the thread, it is a (obscure reference) way of saying...resign!

Your thoughts?

Resigning is an option, not a rule.

grimreaper1973 wrote: Very true!  All starship captains (not sure if all starfleet OFFICERS, although Kirk's scenario was played out with other officers on the bridge) must face the Kobayashi Maru as one of their "final" exams at Starfleet Academy.      In relation to the thread, it is a (obscure reference) way of saying...resign!Artfizz said:The term 'kobayashi maru' may be a slang term in the 23rd century for a hopeless situation at least in Starfleet culture

It has been conceded that: asking someone to resign [EXPLICITLY] is a definite no-no.

Making an obscure - or cultural reference - to resignation: the jury is still out on that one. Assuming for a moment it's OK: how could you express it? You could refer to the punchline of a joke: "They both want to know where the hell those tomahawks are coming from!"

{grimreaper1973: do you think 'kobayashi maru' deserves a topic of its own?}

mandelshtam wrote:

If you look not at the surface of the conflicts but at the issue itself, you could see that I was attacked personally sveral times at Chesscom, without giving a reason. I then could have left immediately, usually I didn't. Because I believe that a person who participates in a discussion has mainly good intentions. ('If you would have kept silent, you were a philosopher'. I am not...)

Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong.

"How dare you to judge about my life."

mandelshtam wrote:

I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. 

"How dare you to judge about my life."

" another superpatriot who attacks me for telling some little story about great 'America'."

"Another topic was blocked because political themes were discussed "

"Topics were blocked because I wrote something against a player who insulted me When I told him/her my opinion in harsh words,"

"I saw that two of my topics have been blocked. BY WHOM ? FOR WHAT?"

"Topics were blocked because I wrote something against a player who insulted me during an ongoing game"

"I must say that if some person of the staff did this, I find this unacceptable."

"I don't care about you."

"he/she threw more dirt on me, calling me sick..."Topics were blocked because I wrote something against a player who insulted me during an ongoing game

 topic was blocked because political themes were discussed 

When I told him/her my opinion in harsh words, challenged her/him to a new game, he/she threw more dirt on me, calling me sick...

topic was blocked because political themes were discussed (I was not the only one who did that in that forum). I was informed about the blocking later ...

another superpatriot who attacks me for telling some little story about great 'America'.

"I saw that two of my topics have been blocked. BY WHOM ? FOR WHAT?

"Shall I give you a list of nations which has  more chess knowledge/culture per inhabitant ? Would you shut up then ?"

"Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong."

"I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. "

"i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

"I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. I fight (when I do) for a cause, not for myself. I blame myself first (which is a weakness, others tell me). How dare you to judge about my life."

Mandelshtam

""i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

""How dare you to judge about my life."

""I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. "

""i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

""How dare you to judge about my life."

""I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. "

"Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong."

" I have few conflicts"  What does Few mean to you - mandelshtam????

"How dare you to judge about my life."  -  mandelshtam????

" I blame myself first (which is a weakness, others tell me)." -  mandelshtam????

"Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong"- mandelshtam????

mandelshtam wrote: 

""i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

Best Regards, Acephalic

I am sorry to hear that the chess players were so rude to you. Just imagine how rude they would be over the internet?  

Citing and repeting my outrages... What if they were justified?

mandelshtam wrote:

Citing and repeting my outrages... What if they were justified?

mandelshtam wrote: "What if they were justified?"

"Citing and repeating my outrages" - What if the repeating outrages repeating justifications.  

And you suggest that people who refuse to resign lack justification???

the old piano dropped down the mine shaft routine 

acephalic,

accusing me of something, and not naming what it really might be , is unfair, because I cannot answer to a question which does not contain a clear issue, and even more unfair doing it in public , I told you that.

I explained to you my reasons for my opinion concerning resigning etiquette in great detail in 2 private emails. You could have at least showed me one single flaw in my arguments , but you didn't. Instead you again go public, and attack my character.

I have no further conversation left with you.

Ive just been called a bastard twice by this Turkish fellah for not resigning a won end game.  I guess he was a bit miffed because I had offered him a draw earlier on which he refused, then my positon improved and I refused his offer of a draw.  I think he could have still played on though. The point is,  we all win and lose games, take it with good grace and move on.  What a sad case this guy is.

mandelshtam wrote:

acephalic,"accusing me of something, and not naming what it really might be"

I have no further conversation left with you.

First off it wasn't me who attacked you in public - it was your own words that you posted in the public forum on the chess.com site for everyone to read. I didn't use a single word from your "detailed emails on etiquette " 

It was your own words that once again victimized you in conjunction with your continuous inability to miss the most obvious flaw of your argument. When faced with your public actions It is glaringly clear that your sense of etiquette is what is @ issue. I believe in appropriate etiquette and my public actions demonstrate this. 

The word Etiquette is defined as ; The forms required by good breeding, or prescribed by authority, to be observed in social or official life; observance of the proprieties of rank and occasion; conventional decorum; ceremonial code of polite society; The customary behavior of members of a profession, business, law, or sports ... en.wiktionary.org/wiki/etiquette

 I believe in appropriate etiquette and my public actions demonstrate this. 

Best Regards, 

Acephalic

http://static.chess.com/images/icons/custom/quote.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: #d7d7d0; color: #444444; padding-top: 6px; padding-right: 6px; padding-bottom: 6px; padding-left: 24px; display: block; background-position: 4px 4px; margin: 6px; border: 1px solid #bcbcb3;">mandelshtam wrote:

If you look not at the surface of the conflicts but at the issue itself, you could see that I was attacked personally sveral times at Chesscom, without giving a reason. I then could have left immediately, usually I didn't. Because I believe that a person who participates in a discussion has mainly good intentions. ('If you would have kept silent, you were a philosopher'. I am not...)

Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong.

"How dare you to judge about my life."

mandelshtam wrote:

I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. 

"How dare you to judge about my life."

" another superpatriot who attacks me for telling some little story about great 'America'."

"Another topic was blocked because political themes were discussed "

"Topics were blocked because I wrote something against a player who insulted me When I told him/her my opinion in harsh words,"

"I saw that two of my topics have been blocked. BY WHOM ? FOR WHAT?"

"Topics were blocked because I wrote something against a player who insulted me during an ongoing game"

"I must say that if some person of the staff did this, I find this unacceptable."

"I don't care about you."

"he/she threw more dirt on me, calling me sick..."Topics were blocked because I wrote something against a player who insulted me during an ongoing game

 topic was blocked because political themes were discussed 

When I told him/her my opinion in harsh words, challenged her/him to a new game, he/she threw more dirt on me, calling me sick...

topic was blocked because political themes were discussed (I was not the only one who did that in that forum). I was informed about the blocking later ...

another superpatriot who attacks me for telling some little story about great 'America'.

"I saw that two of my topics have been blocked. BY WHOM ? FOR WHAT?

"Shall I give you a list of nations which has  more chess knowledge/culture per inhabitant ? Would you shut up then ?"

"Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong."

"I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. "

"i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

"I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. I fight (when I do) for a cause, not for myself. I blame myself first (which is a weakness, others tell me). How dare you to judge about my life."

Mandelshtam

""i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

""How dare you to judge about my life."

""I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. "

""i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

""How dare you to judge about my life."

""I am a peaceful person, I have few conflicts. "

"Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong."

" I have few conflicts"  What does Few mean to you - mandelshtam????

"How dare you to judge about my life."  -  mandelshtam????

" I blame myself first (which is a weakness, others tell me)." -  mandelshtam????

"Still you don't name the issue where I went wrong"- mandelshtam????

mandelshtam wrote: 

""i have made my point very clear here, everybody can read it."

Best Regards, Acephalic

I am sorry to hear that the chess players were so rude to you. Just imagine how rude they would be over the internet?  

what do you want from me, acephalic? There is nothing wrong with my words  above. (And you also don't find anything, otherwise you would have told it, after I asked you at least 3 times to do it.)

I will not willing to contribute to smear campaigns. So i do not defend myself in any way to accusations of inpoliteness, I WASN'T INPOLITE.

But to the discussion. I did nothing than to defend my opinion about resign attitude. I don't repeat my arguments , they are at the same time the opinion of the majority of club players in Germany and many European countries. Accusing me of bad attitude/etiquette for this is simply incorrect.

mandelshtam wrote:

I don't repeat my arguments , they are at the same time the opinion of the majority of club players in Germany and many European countries.

Do you know a majority of the club players in Germany? What does "many European countries" mean? Have you done a survey? What is the basis of this assertion?

I know personally more than 500 chess players in Germany, (There are about 10 000 registerede club players in our country, the highest numberr of registered players in the world!), I played at many Open tournaments in Germany, I played before the fall of the wall for about 15 years in regional league of Sachsen (part of Eastern germany), my opponents mostly  had and have ratings between 1900 to 2300 Elo or DWZ (Deutsche Wertzahl). After the fall I played much less (Profession!), but I was memebr of a chess club in Colgne (West part of germany) for two years. A big majority the players with ELO rating resign after being a piece down, if the opponent is not in huge time trouble.

(Clearly, the higher rated players often resign after being 'only' two pawns down, if they don't have counterplay).

I was in Hungary, in 1986, 1987, at two open tournaments, where teams of Austria, Poland, FRG, GDR, Switzerland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary played, again the same picture.

I visited chess clubs in the Moscow, Kiev, St. Petersburg (I stayed there 6 month, in 1986),  Vitebsk (Belarus, in 1994), and watched team competitions. The same picture again.

I have friends from the former Soviet Union (GM Kovalev, GM Khalifman, GM Tchutchelov), you may ask them, they will confirm my experience and opinion.    

I will resign if I go down a piece with no compensation if I'm playing someone clearly better than me. But if I think I'm the better play, I'll keep going. I think anytime your opponent asks you to resign is TERRIBLE sportsmanship. Some people don't believe in quitting and giving up and I find that to me admirable myself.