Saudi cleric bans chess

I have a problem with the Mufti's opinion in so far as it relates to creation of enmity/ hatred.

The creation of enmity can arise in business competition,jealousy amongst neighbours etc.

Yet business/ trade is rightfully encouraged in Islam.

Following his argument,business could also be declares as Haraam/ forbidden ,for the same reason he declares chess to be forbidden.

As another contributor points out,one can gamble on the weather or on football,yet Saudi actively encourages football and has a natioal football team.Rough tackles ,rivalry can also lead to hatred / enmity in football.

The Mufti has a point in that chess can be time consuming and thus wasteful but perhaps it is up to the individual to use his time fruitfully

Banning chess for its time- consuming tendencies may require the banning of the Xbox ,playstation ,television and this leads to a slippery slope.

Spirituality is fine.

Religion is for children.

So it makes sense that they concern themselves with banning board games.

The accusations against chess by Muslim muffti aren't necessarily false. It is used to gamble in many countries same way chess hustlers could gamble on who will win a game by betting.
Also to some it is a waste of time if they spend all day on chess when they could work or do something the others may consider more "useful".
It is also true that the game can cause hate to exist between players.
BUT none of those reasons should be the reasons to ban something or prohibit it by moral decree somehow. The problem is that Saudi Arabia is trying to ban something people will do anyway and to dictate morality by law. But all that leads to philosophical discussions.

Just a suggestion, Binary.  Study a little cultural anthropology to comprehend how integral religion is to social organization before making such an uninformed statement.

Well put, Drawgood.  Morality can't be legislated, particularly by a government.

Binary is right. Religion is only integral to a social organization only where the members thereof are all a bunch of children.

Block headed Saudi Clerics...

Since chess is not halal anymore some European governments could forbide playing chess in public. After all it might offend Muslim minority...

Don't get it wrong, at least the Muslims I know had a laugh before this cleric's initiative.

well, not sure that a grand Mufia is a (or is thought of as a ) "blowhard"

instead he's probably highly respected by many saudi's- but has less influence over SA youth.

I mean MY kids don't listen to me.  and if I said that spending ALL day on video games was bad- well.... (and it is really)...

Actually, spending All day on video games is good...and fun.

It must of course be done after one has finished school, has a job, and is well into his thirties.

We remove Gaddafi and Saddam but ally with these whack jobs who want to outlaw board games and stone women for driving.  The absurdity. 

Perhaps you've heard of a government of the people to “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.”

That's all it should do.  Morality, in the sense of an inculcated, internalized moral code, is not the purview of our government.  You can leave that to totalitarian systems or theocracies.

You don't have to be a believer to understand the importance of religion in all cultures, including our own.  To paraphrase one of the greatest of sociologists, Emile Durkheim, religion is society sanctified to preserve the group within a given environment.

Despite John Lennon's fatuous and naive song, Imagine, the world will never get along and groups will always have a go at one another.  Man's nature is fixed, not perfectible, and the force of tradition and rule of law are far more important for social stability than neo-Puritan perfectibility beneath the surface of American, secular Progressive belief.

The entire body of literature and folklore has as its source the tragic vision of the human condition.  It was left to various totalitarian movements in the 20th century and to American Progressives in the 21st to swallow whole a Utopian vision.  Then again, a strong belief -- no ... a secular religion  -- with perfectibility of mankind as its central dogma has been part of American culture for over a century.  I suggest reading War Against the Weak to understand what havoc it has cause, including the origins of Nazi eugenics.

So is it better to have the more modest approach of traditional religion -- okay, it has not always been modest -- or suffer the overbearing hubris of a secular religion of perfectibility?

The moral is universal . you do not need legislate it because is common sense.  

Ban chess is a good idea, becuase this game promotes the immorality  crushing your opponent s ego...  If you did not feel this sensati0n yet , i challenge you to play 100  games in a row to experience this feeling. 

Interesting POV. Will think more about it later (about to log off for now).

While I agree tradition is necessary and humans are not perfectable at all, my initial reaction is that none of this necessitates belief in the supernatural. It may have been vital in the past, but it seems to me religion (or maybe I should say: "organized system of belief in the supernatural") is unnecessary in modern society.

It occurs to me I might be using the word religion in a specialized or non-standard way.

Also initially, the end reads too much like a false dichotomy. I'm not so interested in deciding which may have been better historically and then subscribing to its dogma. Maybe this isn't what you meant to suggest though.

It's interesting that I say "spirituality is fine" and then somehow expect religion to not exist though... this seems incorrect. If I make an allowance for the foolishness of an individual I have to admit this will somehow be organized and expressed by a society.

It's terribly annoying though... to admit there are flaws on a societal level, but at the same time having to admit they're necessary (due to human nature) and likely, in the end, even very pragmatic.

Saudi is the country of dumbs and fools. They are chained by their muftis and invisible rules.

It is really immature to get into general religion bashing or Islam bashing. It's actually in poor taste and is inappropriate. As chess players we all agree that we feel bad about the decision about chess by some cleric in Saudi Arabia. This does not warrant starting a discussion about religion or bashing of religion or of a specific religion. Members of every religion mentioned will understandably want to debate and defend their world view. They'll also be able to prove as many counter examples as alleged examples of something wrong with it. Trust me, I am a serious Christian, and I have strong feelings when I read about religion bashing. I too can get angry easily. But I understand that this is thread hijacking and is not relevant to chess at all.

By the way, it is against the rules of chess dot come to debate about religion and politics in the forums.

Drawgood, why are you religious? Send your answer to me privately so the thread is not hijacked and no rules are broken. Thank you.