Seeking advice in building a repertoire with 1. d4 2. nf3

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Avatar of DasBurner

Before asking my questions, I'll describe what I'm currently playing in case I'm getting anything wrong

1. d4 d5 2. nf3

  • If black plays 2. e6, I proceed by playing the Colle normally
  • If black plays 2. nf6, I play 3. e3 and against everything besides e6, play c4, usually entering one of the many quiet lines of the Queen's gambit declined
  • If black plays 2. nf6 3. e6, I just proceed with playing the Colle normally

1. d4 nf6 2. nf3

Based off my experience, black has more responses to choose from after this move order. I choose to play the Torre attack against most of them to avoid playing into Grunfeld and King's Indian

  • If 2. e6, I play the Torre attack proper as the 1. d4 d5 Torre move order is uncomfortable to play after black plays ne4
  • If 2. g6, I still play the Torre attack and wait until black commits to moving his D pawn to d6 or d5 before choosing to play e4 or e3
  • If 2. d5, I just play what I usually play against 1. d4 d5

That's basically all I know for certain so far

Now my questions:

What should white play if black plays an early c5 but doesn't commit to keeping the lsb behind the pawn chain with e6? Example: 1. d4 d5 2. nf3 c5 or 1. d4 d5 2. nf3 nf6 3. e3 c5. I've just been playing it like a Queen's gambit accepted but trying to hold onto the pawn as white has the extra tempo

Are there any other sidelines that I should be aware of?

What response to the Old Benoni (1. d4 c5) fits most with the rest of the repertoire?

I'm aware this is a very long post and thank you in advance if you choose to respond to any of these questions

Avatar of SilverBlade77

ok

Avatar of DasBurner
little_guinea_pig wrote:

also ew Colle and Torre, I'd much rather play the white side of a KID than those lol

ok no Colle's actually fun

Torre is admittedly basically just a London with the bishop on g5 but I like it better that way

Avatar of DasBurner

at least it has a cooler name

Avatar of myusername456456

switch queen's gambit instead of Nf3

Avatar of DasBurner

no

Avatar of Stil1

I play similar, though I play 1.Nf3 and 2.d4. (Slightly different move order, to avoid the Englund Gambit.)

There's nothing wrong with facing the Englund Gambit, of course, but I find that 1.Nf3 sucks some "fun" out of the opening for Englund Gambit lovers.

Regarding an early c5: I just play e3.

With the tension on d4/c5, white can wait until black captures on d4 ... White recaptures with the f3 knight, or with the e3 pawn, depending on which he prefers.

If black doesn't capture on d4, then white can exchange on c5, push c2-c4 (if it hasn't been played already), and fianchetto his bishop at b2.

Avatar of ninjaswat
little_guinea_pig wrote:

What do you play against 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5? I think 3.c4 is practically forced (3.e3 is bad for White), and then cxd5 Nxd5 e5 Nb5 d5 cxd5 Bc5 is the main line.

d4 Nf6 Nf4 c5 d5... transposition to Benoni... after c4 it's playable but d5 gives more of an advantage. Of course that would benefit me since I play the Benoni tongue.png

Avatar of ninjaswat
Stil1 wrote:

I play similar, though I play 1.Nf3 and 2.d4. (Slightly different move order, to avoid the Englund Gambit.)

There's nothing wrong with facing the Englund Gambit, of course, but I find that 1.Nf3 sucks some "fun" out of the opening for Englund Gambit lovers.

Regarding an early c5: I just play e3.

With the tension on d4/c5, white can wait until black captures on d4 ... White recaptures with the f3 knight, or with the e3 pawn, depending on which he prefers.

If black doesn't capture on d4, then white can exchange on c5, push c2-c4 (if it hasn't been played already), and fianchetto his bishop at b2.

I believe that it's widely acknowledged white gains more of an advantage by pushing d5 (as in the main lines of the Benoni) but yes, this is a very solid approach. What deters you from pushing d5?

Avatar of DasBurner
Stil1 wrote:

I play similar, though I play 1.Nf3 and 2.d4. (Slightly different move order, to avoid the Englund Gambit.)

There's nothing wrong with facing the Englund Gambit, of course, but I find that 1.Nf3 sucks some "fun" out of the opening for Englund Gambit lovers.

Regarding an early c5: I just play e3.

With the tension on d4/c5, white can wait until black captures on d4 ... White recaptures with the f3 knight, or with the e3 pawn, depending on which he prefers.

If black doesn't capture on d4, then white can exchange on c5, push c2-c4 (if it hasn't been played already), and fianchetto his bishop at b2.

Thank you! I hadn't considered playing a fianchetto but I'll experiment with it

Regarding the Englund gambit, I actually enjoy playing it as I can just get a very solid opening advantage by following this refutation that I found in literally 2 minutes while tinkering in the analysis board

 

 

Avatar of JackRudd

Be aware that if you're meeting 1...c5 with 2.e3, Black has the option of 2...cxd4 3.exd4 d5, transposing into a Caro-Kann.

Avatar of Lud6969

tbh if ya play d4 nf3 i would just quit chess (im joking lmao). 1.D4 2.C4=best opening.

Avatar of DasBurner
Lud6969 wrote:

tbh if ya play d4 nf3 i would just quit chess (im joking lmao). 1.D4 2.C4=best opening.

I don't enjoy playing either the Benoni or Grunfeld as white and that's like half of what I face if I play d4 c4

On the other hand, 2. nf3 allows me move orders that allow me to play the Colle-Zukertort attack which is a lot more fun than dealing with someone who knows 20 moves of Benoni maneuvers

Avatar of king5minblitz119147

1 d4 d5 2 nf3 c5 3 c4 is what i play. it can transpose to a main line qga, tarrasch and some other line, but since i have taken up 1 d4 and 2 c4 as my repertoire i don't mind. there is 3 e3 trying to get a colle anyway. it is easier but that can also be said for black.

i find the colle systems rather dry especially if you avoid getting an iqp. ironically its counterparts in the reversed positions, namely the semi slav and the queen's gambit accepted,  are generally sharp. i suppose that's because white feels obligated to fight for an advantage there while here black doesn't have to.

Avatar of assassin3752

just play the bongcloud against every opening you encounter and you'l be on your way to be the new world champion.

simple

Avatar of Optimissed
DasBurner wrote:
Stil1 wrote:

I play similar, though I play 1.Nf3 and 2.d4. (Slightly different move order, to avoid the Englund Gambit.)

There's nothing wrong with facing the Englund Gambit, of course, but I find that 1.Nf3 sucks some "fun" out of the opening for Englund Gambit lovers.

Regarding an early c5: I just play e3.

With the tension on d4/c5, white can wait until black captures on d4 ... White recaptures with the f3 knight, or with the e3 pawn, depending on which he prefers.

If black doesn't capture on d4, then white can exchange on c5, push c2-c4 (if it hasn't been played already), and fianchetto his bishop at b2.

Thank you! I hadn't considered playing a fianchetto but I'll experiment with it

Regarding the Englund gambit, I actually enjoy playing it as I can just get a very solid opening advantage by following this refutation that I found in literally 2 minutes while tinkering in the analysis board

 

 

I think that's even, wouldn't you say? Black has a solid position. The refutation is Bf4.

Avatar of DasBurner
Optimissed wrote:
DasBurner wrote:
Stil1 wrote:

I play similar, though I play 1.Nf3 and 2.d4. (Slightly different move order, to avoid the Englund Gambit.)

There's nothing wrong with facing the Englund Gambit, of course, but I find that 1.Nf3 sucks some "fun" out of the opening for Englund Gambit lovers.

Regarding an early c5: I just play e3.

With the tension on d4/c5, white can wait until black captures on d4 ... White recaptures with the f3 knight, or with the e3 pawn, depending on which he prefers.

If black doesn't capture on d4, then white can exchange on c5, push c2-c4 (if it hasn't been played already), and fianchetto his bishop at b2.

Thank you! I hadn't considered playing a fianchetto but I'll experiment with it

Regarding the Englund gambit, I actually enjoy playing it as I can just get a very solid opening advantage by following this refutation that I found in literally 2 minutes while tinkering in the analysis board

 

 

I think that's even, wouldn't you say? Black has a solid position. The refutation is Bf4.

Extra tempo + center+ rapid queenside development + open file to attack the kingside should black castle short seems very equal to me

I think even bg5 works in that diagram, forcing a concession from black with f6 or conceding the fork 

Avatar of Stil1
ninjaswat wrote:

I believe that it's widely acknowledged white gains more of an advantage by pushing d5 (as in the main lines of the Benoni) but yes, this is a very solid approach. What deters you from pushing d5?

I've stumbled headfirst into a few veteran Benoni/Benko players, and the experiences haven't always been pleasant ...

These days, I'd rather steer the game more toward my comfort zone than stroll into their favorite defense.

With some Benoni/Benko players, the moment you play d5, they're practically leaping up and down in celebration. tongue.png

Avatar of ThatGuyNamedJeff

After:

1.
d4
d5
2.
Nf3
c5
3.
e3
Nc6




It looks like a reversed queens gambit declined, not sure if you enjoy playing those positions or not

Avatar of ninjaswat
little_guinea_pig wrote:
Stil1 wrote:
ninjaswat wrote:

I believe that it's widely acknowledged white gains more of an advantage by pushing d5 (as in the main lines of the Benoni) but yes, this is a very solid approach. What deters you from pushing d5?

I've stumbled headfirst into a few veteran Benoni/Benko players, and the experiences haven't always been pleasant ...

These days, I'd rather steer the game more toward my comfort zone than stroll into their favorite defense.

With some Benoni/Benko players, the moment you play d5, they're practically leaping up and down in celebration.

I play the Czech and modern and I can confirm this lol.