Seirawan and Jennifer Shahade had a brief debate about the question of studying openings

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Avatar of BronsteinPawn
penandpaper0089 escribió:
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
BronsteinPawn wrote:

There is a big misunderstanding. 

Why does everyone (patzers) think that studying openings is the same as memorizing openings? Studying openings is very far from that crap, at least correctly studying openings is far away from that. Should you learn the typical plans, pawn structures, tactical motifs, defensive resources and endgames that arise from an opening? Yes you should, does not matter if you are 600 or 2600 it will benefit you. Do you need to memorize lines? No, that is what everyone thinks when someone says "studying opening theory" and is crap.

Look at Ponzetto´s "Mastering the King´s Indian", that right there is kind of the way you should study openings or opening theory, however you want to name it.

Those are just my 2 cents on the matter, whenever I talked about studying opening theory with stronger players (FM and above) that is what they think when someone tells them "studying openigs" or "studying opening theory". 

Exactly.

I asked a GM for advice on how to study an opening.

He said use resources online to get modern games of top GMs. Play over a few of them every day until you've seen a few hundred games.

I've heard this before and while it seems like a good idea I wonder how effective it truly is. Sure I suppose I would notice patterns and pick up some things. But can say a 1400 player really look at the games of 2500 players and just understand what's happening just by looking at games? How would he even know what's going on? What could a 1400 player possibly understand about the strategy of 2500 players? Will he just know that play on the dark-squares is important by looking at 100 games? What about 1000? How many games does it take for the wisdom of the ages to impart itself upon a 1400 player that he might understand the games of Kasparov?

I'm not saying that this isn't a good idea but I think the usefulness of this approach is overstated and probably more useful for stronger players that can somewhat wrap their head around these complicated ideas.

I mean you certainly wouldn't be expected to gain mastery of anything else by just watching someone else do it. You would seek out a teacher that could point out important things to you. Sure you might have some ideas from the positions you watch alone but you'd also have all kinds of misunderstandings and bad habits that you might never even notice until someone pointed it out to you.

Mmm, I never said you should look at GM games and take that as a study. That was ChinOfQuin so I dont know why you quote me.

Avatar of WeakChessPlayedSlow
Cherub_Enjel wrote:

I "know" multiple defenses to 1.e4 and 1.d4 (I'm sure we all do), but I can play one clearly better than I can play the others (my main response, of course). 

I think that's not unreasonable to briefly look at multiple responses, but to learn them in depth is too much for a 1400. 

 

However, it's mainly about playing skills. 

I'm playing in multiple thematic/pre-determined opening tournaments, and the one I'm doing exceptionally well in right now is the "Petrov's Defense", where I'm just winning games easily and smoothly. I've never played the 5.d4 variation of the Petroff as either color in a single game in my life until now. 

I don't. I only know, and only have ever known one defense. To everything. Regardless of what my opponents plays, I always have played it.

Avatar of SirFlintstone

Having a second opening or defense is useful in obtaining other ideas from the game of chess.  If chosen properly it can lead to a repertoire.  It can also keep interest in the game or provide a back-up when Magnus (or another popular GM) finds a refutation to your line or opening choice.

Avatar of SirFlintstone

A great way of starting to learn the openings is the book 500 Master Games from a long time ago.

Avatar of kindaspongey

penandpaper0089 wrote:

"... you certainly wouldn't be expected to gain mastery of anything else by just watching someone else do it. You would seek out a teacher that could point out important things to you. ..."

There are books that combine opening explanation with sample games.

Avatar of BronsteinPawn
kindaspongey escribió:

penandpaper0089 wrote:

"... you certainly wouldn't be expected to gain mastery of anything else by just watching someone else do it. You would seek out a teacher that could point out important things to you. ..."

There are books that combine opening explanation with sample games.

Shh, dont prove him wrong or he may bite you.

Avatar of The_Chin_Of_Quinn
BronsteinPawn wrote:
 

Mmm, I never said you should look at GM games and take that as a study. That was ChinOfQuin so I dont know why you quote me.

Yeah, I was a little surprised he said modern top GM games only.

I guess he considered that the way to learn current theory. I asked "so you don't think opening books are very useful?" and he chuckled and said no. He said just follow all the top tournaments.

Of course that's just one guy's opinion. I'm not saying I buy into it 100%, and it may not be appropriate for all levels, etc etc.

Avatar of kindaspongey
BronsteinPawn wrote:
kindaspongey escribió:
 penandpaper0089 wrote:

... you certainly wouldn't be expected to gain mastery of anything else by just watching someone else do it. You would seek out a teacher that could point out important things to you. ...

There are books that combine opening explanation with sample games.

Shh, dont prove him wrong or he may bite you.

I was not trying to prove anyone wrong. I was just trying to suggest a way to try to get something like the effect of a teacher.

Avatar of Cybord2000

Think bronstein has a point...

   Their is a little memorization in the openings , but creativity plays bigger roles especially when playing unfamiliar variations .

    everyone should have basis on opening repetoir , through study on openings is a different ballpark because each has many many winning lines of their own.

Avatar of TalSpin

BronsteinPawn wrote:

There is a big misunderstanding. 

Why does everyone (patzers) think that studying openings is the same as memorizing openings? Studying openings is very far from that crap, at least correctly studying openings is far away from that. Should you learn the typical plans, pawn structures, tactical motifs, defensive resources and endgames that arise from an opening? Yes you should, does not matter if you are 600 or 2600 it will benefit you. Do you need to memorize lines? No, that is what everyone thinks when someone says "studying opening theory" and is crap.

Look at Ponzetto´s "Mastering the King´s Indian", that right there is kind of the way you should study openings or opening theory, however you want to name it.

Those are just my 2 cents on the matter, whenever I talked about studying opening theory with stronger players (FM and above) that is what they think when someone tells them "studying openigs" or "studying opening theory". 

Close to the same answer I gave here a couple of days ago. Study the strategies of your chosen openings, the principal ideas, like white having a spatial advantage and trying to attack K-side while black counters in the center or Q-side (for example, you'll want to know a little more detail). It'll basically give you a map to follow to a good game. If you see your opponent deviating from the normal plans in a given position or structure, he's probably unaware that he is and the time is right to look for that breakthrough that could win the game.