Stockfish is blind!

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Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Since many here think I am weak and not worhty of writing good books,

above is a position from one of my games against Stockfish played on talkchess

forum in late 2014.

TC was 30 minutes per game, so close to analytical.

How many people will find the move with which I won against Stockfish?

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Stockfish is black, it is white's turn, I am not certain where the turn

is shown on this diagram.

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PieceOfPoo wrote:

So you're telling me you can do what no super GM can do? haha liar. cheater! Go die.

Later I will post a link to the whole thread on talkchess, where the game has been played under

controlled conditions, everybody following.

Stockfish has been playing on 16 threads.

So, you are unable to find the move, right, hence the bitterness?

 

I hope that chess.com is not such a weak forum after all, that no one is able to see the win.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
bb_gum234 wrote:

Play in OTB tournaments if you want to show how good you are.

The new paradigm will be playing and analysing in back rooms, the Fischer way, rather than participating over the board.

In such a way, much higher concentration is guaranteed, which is of primary importance for chess.

 

Fischer would have lost the match in 1972, if the venue had not been transferred to a back room,

right?

Avatar of chesster3145

Not that I (or the computer) can see. It doesn’t look like there are any tactics, but White is certainly better in this position, contrary to what Stockfish claims.

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JamesColeman wrote:

So I assume it's Qf6+...

Thank you, James.

At least one constructive person here.

 

Right, that is the move(but I guess, with 2 exclams added), and then?

Do you know what current Stockfish says on this position?

Avatar of poorsenstein
I’m going to pown all of you
Avatar of IpswichMatt

Here's a line from Stockfish on m PC: 1 Qf6+ Bxf6 2 gxf6+ Kg8 3 Ng5 h5 4 Bxh5 Rb7 5 Bf2 Be8 6 Rg1 Qa7 and here Stockfish says there is a forced mate in 8 and gives 7 Rg4 Nxd4 8 Bxd4 Qxd4 9 cxd4 c3 10 Bxg6 fxg6 11 Rgh4 etc

However, I doubt if the moves I've given are the best defense

Avatar of Pikelemi

But you never played a single game of chess so that post does not make any sense.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Thank you everybody for your feedback.

 

Not to respond to everybody individually, here a link

to bring back to life an intriguing thread on talkchess, involving the live chess game between me and Stockfish, played in late 2014:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_view=threads&p=598874&t=54487&sid=863741b0621363b365f8debe27a1a99c
This is just to show how much analytical effort has gone into developing the right strategies to overpower the top engines.
With each move consistently analysed for half an hour, and Stockfish using 16 threads, the amount of knowledge one gets from similar sessions is certainly tremendous.

And that is only one of maybe more than a thousand similar analytical threads on talkchess during the last 5 years.

Some might try to raise cheating allegations against me, but I am worth
what I am worth.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

To clarify that the game started from a constructed position(see beginning of thread).

The reason was we wagered whether Stockfish could lose in a specific closed position,

which it evaluated greatly to its favour, most people on talkchess did not believe then(see comments

during the game), just like you, but they do now.

And please note, that the game was LIVE, so no possibility to fake pgns, TC or

something else.

I might have been using Stockfish indeed, or some other engine, but to what end,

as it is clearly evident neither Stockfish, nor Komodo or Houdini at the time see mate

up until a dozen moves after the key Qf6 sacrifice.

Nor do current top engines.

 

We have of course, played many other live games on talkchess, you should just browse

the forum.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Oops, I meant full live games.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
BobbyTalparov wrote:

Engines are notorious for incorrect evaluations of closed positions. This is largely due to 2 factors: they are materialistic and the horizon effect. Sacrificing a piece for an immediate checkmate is easy for them to find. Sacrificing a piece to find a winning advantage 15 moves later is another thing entitely.

Well, that is one good comment.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
bb_gum234 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
bb_gum234 wrote:

Play in OTB tournaments if you want to show how good you are.

The new paradigm will be playing and analysing in back rooms, the Fischer way, rather than participating over the board.

In such a way, much higher concentration is guaranteed, which is of primary importance for chess.

That makes no sense.

Anyway first of all the position seems composed (or from analysis), I doubt this came from a real game vs stockfish at full strength on a standard PC. Maybe I'm wrong though, show the full game.

Secondly I see an attack, but can't find a mate after Qf6. e.g.

 

You can't find mate, because you are using engines.

See the link I provided for the thread on talkchess.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
DeirdreSkye wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
bb_gum234 wrote:

Play in OTB tournaments if you want to show how good you are.

The new paradigm will be playing and analysing in back rooms, the Fischer way, rather than participating over the board.

In such a way, much higher concentration is guaranteed, which is of primary importance for chess.

 

Fischer would have lost the match in 1972, if the venue had not been transferred to a back room,

right?

And Kasparov, Anand, Kramnik, Tal, Karpov Alekhine, Botvinnik, Petrosian,Smyslov   Spassky, Carlsen , won the title without playing in  a back room.

   So you can't concetrate if you don't play in a back room because you are , like Fischer , a  creative and crazy  genious.Is that your point?

Precisely.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Whenever I have drawn a certain match against an opponent, say 10-10,

in a noisy cafe/place, I have beaten the same opponent 20-0 in a quiet room.

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JamesColeman wrote:

I can't see a win either, I was working on the basis that if it's not Qf6+ it's not anything

 

There's 24.Ng5 h5 25.Bxh5 but if Black doesn't (of course) take, and plays something like Rfd8, intending to run with the King, not really sure how to continue...

It is mate in 25.

Hope this helps. happy.png

 

Well, as the lines are long, they are difficult for engines, and also for some humans.

I myself, when playing the sacrifice, did not investigate anything closer, as I was certain white

is leading in evaluation by at least 5 full pawns.

But investigations have continued years after that, some still don't believe there is a forced mate.

 

For myself, I am clear on most lines, please see the game thread on talkchess I posted.

You are right about 24. Ng5 being the best continuation.

White should simply mate at some point, as too many threats are involved:

- doubling rooks on the h file with mate on h8, or, alternatively, even quicker, Rg7 check Kh8,

and then checkmate with the other rook on the h file.

- Bd2-h6-g7 and then Rh8 mate

- on h5, Bh5 of course, and then back to the abovementioned plans

- the black king can not retreat to f8, as Rh8 mates

- there are some tricky black sacs of queen or knight, but they are too slow,

this is evident, but still requires concrete variations

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IpswichMatt wrote:

Here's a line from Stockfish on m PC: 1 Qf6+ Bxf6 2 gxf6+ Kg8 3 Ng5 h5 4 Bxh5 Rb7 5 Bf2 Be8 6 Rg1 Qa7 and here Stockfish says there is a forced mate in 8 and gives 7 Rg4 Nxd4 8 Bxd4 Qxd4 9 cxd4 c3 10 Bxg6 fxg6 11 Rgh4 etc

However, I doubt if the moves I've given are the best defense

3 years ago, Stockfish has been suggesting 3. Rh6, with draw.

But Ng5 is stronger.

Avatar of Lyudmil_Tsvetkov
Pikelemi wrote:

But you never played a single game of chess so that post does not make any sense.

That one is a chess game, live, and Qf6 is a very good move not everyone will play and understand.

Avatar of MARattigan
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

Stockfish is black, it is white's turn, I am not certain where the turn

is shown on this diagram.

If you click on the "two fingers" picture below the diagram, then on the "no through road" picture above the diagram that's diaplayed, you get a PGN and you can see who's move it is from the included FEN.

 

I wish they'd speak English too.