marqumax wrote:
What's your opinion on this:they have no proof he cheated at all recently in any tournaments!
Stop the witch hunt for Hans Niemann!
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Sep 28, 2022
0
#103
ChocolateIsCool2022 a écrit :
Hans didn't cheat!
He was so strictly tested for anything that could be a cheating device, and I think it is the most anyone ever has been!
So it is very unlikely that he did. and I believe he most certainly did not!
He was not! You were not there....they did check a lot closely AFTER Magnus left the tournament.
Even without proof of Hans cheating in any OTB tournaments there are still a few things that make people doubt him. The fact that he straight lied about the extent of his online cheating, his post game analysis and the fact that his coach is also a known cheater, fraudster and all round scumbag.
Tank1366 wrote:
Even without proof of Hans cheating in any OTB tournaments there are still a few things that make people doubt him. The fact that he straight lied about the extent of his online cheating, his post game analysis and the fact that his coach is also a known cheater, fraudster and all round scumbag.
2 things:
1) throwing a nineteen year old under the bus because of online cheating as a minor, be it 2 or 20 cases, is ridicoulous. I mean, where do you draw the line? Hasn't Alireza been caught cheating online too? (I'm not 100% sure) Nobody is throwing Alireza under the bus for this.
2) If you refer to Dlugy, you need to get your facts straight; He at one point worked with Hans, for approx. 1 year several years ago. So saying that his coach is a known cheat is misrepresenting things a lot.
what's left is a suspiciously fast rise to the super GM level and Hans' strange post game behaviour. And going by Magnus' statement he doesn't have any further evidence against Hans neither but a gut feeling that something's wrong with the guy.
GMahatma wrote:
Tank1366 wrote:
Even without proof of Hans cheating in any OTB tournaments there are still a few things that make people doubt him. The fact that he straight lied about the extent of his online cheating, his post game analysis and the fact that his coach is also a known cheater, fraudster and all round scumbag.
2 things:
1) throwing a nineteen year old under the bus because of online cheating as a minor, be it 2 or 20 cases, is ridicoulous. I mean, where do you draw the line? Hasn't Alireza been caught cheating online too? (I'm not 100% sure) Nobody is throwing Alireza under the bus for this.
2) If you refer to Dlugy, you need to get your facts straight; He at one point worked with Hans, for approx. 1 year several years ago. So saying that his coach is a known cheat is misrepresenting things a lot.
what's left is a suspiciously fast rise to the super GM level and Hans' strange post game behaviour. And going by Magnus' statement he doesn't have any further evidence against Hans neither but a gut feeling that something's wrong with the guy.
Ridiculous? My first point mentioned nothing about buses or being caught cheating. My point is that he flat out lied about the extent of his cheating and this wasn't a 12 year old telling lies.
The fact that he lied is what makes his credibility, integrity and honesty questionable.
As far as Dlugy goes yes I shouldn't used the word coach, so he was his former coach and mentor. Do you know for a fact that they no longer associate with eachother? Even if they don't, the fact that they did have a relationship before raises major red flags. Birds of a feather cheat together.
Sep 28, 2022
0
#109
1.) Where is the hard evidence of cheating by Hans Niemann?
2.) Where is Hans Niemann's libel lawsuit?
I don't know about steel vaults, but maybe go back to wood pieces and boards and do not hold major tournaments online.
Maybe there are others using computer moves, but not being so blatant, like beating the world champion as black.
Magnus had not been beaten in the last 53 classical games, and Hans beat him as black. Then another top player implies Magnus is paranoid, until Hans beats him in 22 moves. The second occurred in an online major tournament, Hans has admitted cheating online, and that should be relatively easy to do.
There is evidence in terms of games being close to computer moves, and Hans doing 200 point better in tournaments where the moves were broadcast live.
So we should let Hans alone if there isn't enough evidence to convict of criminal charges beyond a reasonable doubt according to British / US law? So we don't like the way Magnus is handling this, quitting the tournament and resigning on move 2? So should he just keep quiet and be cheated? He shouldn't do anything unless he has proof?
Where is Hans's libel suit? Truth is a defense to libel, slander, and defamation, and evidence of truth could be presented if there was a suit.
Can Hans show he can win OTB without the moves being broadcast?
It's been almost 3 days and Hans Niemann hasn't said a word.....maybe he's looking for the right lawyer?
SaturnianMan wrote:
I'll grant that. As far as a libel suit, that would be fascinating. Not sure cheating at chess under FIDE protocols constitutes a criminal offense. But then again I'm not a lawyer. It would be an interesting libel suit, perhaps with some merit. But how could lawyers prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Niemann was cheating with admissible evidence to the accusation. Lawyers would bring analysis experts from both sides. And then most likely a judge would have to decide what's admissible. It would be a fascinating case.
I am not a lawyer, but in civil case under English common law, you just need perponderence of the evidence. Truth is a defense and you don't have to prove it. Libel etc. suits are more difficult in the US than Britain, particularly if you are a "public figure"
Presumably this is partly why Magnus etc. have not directly accused Hans. It also seems unlikely they would make implications without basis considering they are wealthy and could be sued.
Sep 29, 2022
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#113
To those who are perplexed about Hans Niemann's rapid rise in rankings and believe he must be cheating, please explain how he went from an 1172 ELO to 1800 within the year of 2013 at the age of . . . ten? Must have been cheating right?
NervesofButter wrote:
LudiMagisterChristoph wrote:
To those who are perplexed about Hans Niemann's rapid rise in rankings and believe he must be cheating, please explain how he went from an 1172 ELO to 1800 within the year of 2013 at the age of . . . ten? Must have been cheating right?
That kind of development is not that unusual.
I was going to say the same thing. For someone who is good, and talented (like Hans) that kind of improvement is probably normal, rather than unusual. I'll bet pretty much ALL grandmasters had periods of incredibly rapid improvement in their early/mid chess development.
What is unusual (apparently unprecedented) is incredible improvement in a short amount of time near the top of the rating scale.
Sep 29, 2022
0
#115
LudiMagisterChristoph wrote:
To those who are perplexed about Hans Niemann's rapid rise in rankings and believe he must be cheating, please explain how he went from an 1172 ELO to 1800 within the year of 2013 at the age of . . . ten? Must have been cheating right?
1800 in a year is pretty normal for people who become GMs later... or are you being sarcastic or something?
I look at it this way. Short of a confession there will probably never be enough evidence to be 100% sure he has been cheating recently. I think what will happen is more of what's been going on the last few weeks. More back and forth concerning computer evaluations of his games. Probably overall most people will conclude that he's been cheating, but just can't prove it satisfactorily.
So, if he really is that good, if his recent rapid rise in ability is any indication of his true genius, we wont have to wait long for it to be proven. Within 2 years he will be a top contender for the world championship, which he should win pretty easily.
Sep 29, 2022
0
#117
The difficulty in getting from 1250–1500 is much easier than going from 1500–1750, leagues away from the difficulty of going from 1750–2000, a continent away from 2000–2250, worlds away from 2250–2500, and light years away from 2500–2750.
In the last example, going from 2500 to 2750 is going from being one of the top few thousand in the word and taking you in the top fifty.
Sep 29, 2022
0
#118
SaturnianMan wrote:
Honestly, the real enemy is the tournament structure itself. These events should be held in a solid steal bank vault, with solid ten-foot thick steel walls, no audience members except by way of closed circuit camera, and one moderator to keep score by hand with a pencil and paper. Boards should not be electronic at all. Just wood board and wood pieces, wood table and wood chairs--all placed in steel vault moments before the first move.
I agree. And air is optional.
marqumax wrote:
He should play naked
I'm not watching, thanks...
Sep 29, 2022
0
#119
1g1yy wrote:
marqumax wrote:
He should play naked
I'm not watching, thanks...
Speak for yourself! 
...
Hans didn't cheat!
He was so strictly tested for anything that could be a cheating device, and I think it is the most anyone ever has been!
So it is very unlikely that he did. and I believe he most certainly did not!