Strange and dubious openings I: The Alapin opening

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GreenCastleBlock

1.e4 e5 2.Ne2 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5! seems good.

White should just play 4.Nbc3 d6 to get a King's Gambit Declined, where White would clearly prefer his KN to be behind the f pawn.  Instead 4.fxe5? d6! is quite bad for White...

TitanCG

White is fine after f4 but Black is too and so Ne2 never caught on. It's tactically ok to play this way ( something like1.e4 e5 2.Ne2 Nf6 3.f4 ef 4.Nxf4 Nxe5 5.Qe2 Qe7 6.Nd5 Qe5 7.Nc3 c6 8.d4 Qxd4 9.Be3 Nxc3 10.Bg5+ is nasty) but Black has a few ways to get out of the opening without any trouble. 

3.d4 is an idea of Stefan Bueker(?) but that's a real gambit and I really don't know much about that.

TitanCG

After 2...Nc6 3.f4 no longer threatens the e-pawn but there's still simply 3.d4 or 3.Nc3 if White wants to do that. Black is probably fine either way but White isn't screwed or anything.

TrumanB
GreenCastleBlock wrote:

1.e4 e5 2.Ne2 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5! seems good.

 

White should just play 4.Nbc3 d6 to get a King's Gambit Declined, where White would clearly prefer his KN to be behind the f pawn.  Instead 4.fxe5? d6! is quite bad for White...

But the point of this opening is not to enter King's gambit.:) I believe that 3.Nbc3 is a necessity if you want to play real Alapin.

GreenCastleBlock
TrumanB wrote:
GreenCastleBlock wrote:

1.e4 e5 2.Ne2 Nc6 3.f4 Bc5! seems good.

White should just play 4.Nbc3 d6 to get a King's Gambit Declined, where White would clearly prefer his KN to be behind the f pawn.  Instead 4.fxe5? d6! is quite bad for White...

But the point of this opening is not to enter King's gambit.:) I believe that 3.Nbc3 is a necessity if you want to play real Alapin.

Okay so 3.Nbc3 Bc5 anyway.  What does your "real Alapin" involve White doing?  Now d2-d4 is out, and you say you don't want to play f2-f4 (which would be comfortably met with ..d6) so I'm guessing you're basing your bid for advantage around 4.Na4 hunting the bishop?

TrumanB

Nope, now g3 is a key move and latter Bg2.

Spectator94
uscftigerprowl wrote:
TrumanB wrote:
uscftigerprowl wrote:
TrumanB wrote:

Wrong topic! This is not about Sicilian.

It says Alapin, the OP should clarify.

It says Alapin OPENING: STRANGE and DUBIOUS

Alapin is justa variation of a Sicilian and it's not strange nor dubious.;)

The title is, "Strange and dubious openings I: The Alapin opening"

 

First, the word "the" implies just one, definite article. If it had "A" or "An" then it would require acceptance of multiple openings with the same name (one of many or few), indefinite article.

 

Second, if you refer to "the ____" chances are good your audience is going to relate to "the ____" that they most closely associate with.

 

The Sicilian Alapin is the one I most closely relate to. That's all.

Haha I lol'd, not because it makes no sense what you explain, far from that, but because it's such a subtle language issue. As a translator I encounter that kind of thing every day

ponz111

Actually this opening is not so bad....

TrumanB

Mr ponz, I knew you're a smart guy!

GreenCastleBlock
TrumanB wrote:

Nope, now g3 is a key move and latter Bg2.

If you wanted to play that way, probably a better opening for you is 2.Nc3 and 3.g3.  With the KN committed to e2 so early I think White may have an issue with ..h5-h4, specifically after a sequence like:

On 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 White usually plays 3.Bc4, 3.g3, 3.f4, sometimes 3.Nf3.  3.Nge2 appears to be an inferior move in that position.

Perhaps it is best, after 2.Ne2 Nc6, to just play 3.d4 and try to transpose back to a Scotch, and on 2.Ne2 Nf6, try your 3.Nbc3 move, and argue that flexibility is the point of 2.Ne2.  After all, if White is willing to play the Scotch but doesn't want to play against the Petroff 2.Nf3 Nf6, then this could meet his needs.

TrumanB

GreenCastleBlock, I don't see a big problem in that position. White should continue with his f4 plan. Also, instead of 7.h3 he may play h4. In my opinion 3.Nge2 is still good, it has a  lot of developing potencial.

GreenCastleBlock
TrumanB wrote:

GreenCastleBlock, I don't see a big problem in that position. White should continue with his f4 plan. Also, instead of 7.h3 he may play h4. In my opinion 3.Nge2 is still good, it has a  lot of developing potencial.

Well, if you think that position is good for White I guess there is no stopping you.

TrumanB

If you'd like we can play correspondence game to test our views? ;)

I'll take white and we play Alapin?

TitanCG

It just looks like some kind of Vienna game. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be playable and White can simply delay castling if ...h5 is serious. White can play 6.d3 and wait to see how Black wants to develop the other knight.

6...h6 7.O-O 

6...Nf6 7.Bg5  

6...Be6 7.Nd5

6...Nge7 looks tricky to me. Maybe White can play 7.Nd5 anyway. Idunno.

TrumanB

According to Stockfish, white is OK ( check by yourself ) he can develop with with Nd5,c3-d4, depending on his opponents move...

TrumanB