The Difference Between a 2000 and a 2500

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Duck

Hey everyone, similar posts like this might have already been created, but I'd really like to go into depth on what separates a 2500+ player from a 2000 rated player. Aside from blunders, it seems that extremely strong players have a high sense of pattern recognition and have the ability to analyze the position and seemingly find the most accurate moves. How does this happen though? How do you improve your intuition to the point where you can consistently play the best moves without a second thought? Throughout a chess game, there are certain positions I come across where moves are few, I struggle to find a decent move, and my position slowly starts to deteriorate. I know the basics, like getting your pieces active, exploiting your opponent's blunders, and getting your king safe, but how can I advance to the next level? I also know that practice is a must, but what should I prioritize when I practice? Thanks. 

llOverciverll

OK

geoffreytoad

My coach says practice. He says play the openings and defenses that everyone else is not playing. He says know 10 openings and 10 defenses. He says once you practice, play games on chess.com and test yourself. Also he says over the board chess tournaments are the true test you are a good player on not. If you still loose,…you have much more to learn.

blueemu

Consistency.

I can play like a GM for a single game... then the next game, I play like a moron.

Titled players can play at IM / GM / SGM level consistently.

llama36
ScatteredWealth wrote:

How do you improve your intuition to the point where you can consistently play the best moves without a second though?

If they knew how to do that, then they'd be rated a lot higher than 2500 lol.

Kowarenai

i think the main difference is essentially the tactical vision and calculation with being able to process certain positions way faster and understanding the plan while 2000's are just stuck

MaetsNori

Knowledge.

Grandmasters have studied chess to a much more profound level than experts have.

Often, when you see grandmasters talking about positions, they generally know the viable ideas and the dubious ideas at a glance - not because they are human engines, but because they have invested countless hours studying the minor details that most experts are unaware of.

It's why you'll hear Magnus or Fabiano say things like, "nc5 is ... not a normal move in these kinds of positions". Which suggests that they have already spent a lot of time (hours and hours and hours) studying similar positions.

The intuition comes from study - from scouring through databases and sitting in front of analysis boards ... from analyzing game after game, after game ...

llama36

Interesting that @kowarenai and @scatteredwealth just talk about playing fast and tactical. I wish I could be a kid and have one of your ratings without actually understanding anything about chess yet... when you actually learn some stuff you'll be rated even higher.

@ironsteam1 is more to the point... people play well and fast when they know actual ideas that they gained from studying.

You feel like your position slowly deteriorates? That means your opponent understands the position better than you. Positions have long term goals that have nothing to do with tactics or making threats. You can study pawn structure and endgames... not from idiotic memes (like Gotham) but from actual chess books.

BoxJellyfishChess

Oh god. Before I became a master, my dad was always searching for the thing that sets masters apart from experts. Before I became an IM, my dad was always searching for the thing that sets IMs apart from FMs. Now he looks on to grandmasters and wonders what makes them different. Surely, there's some secret you HAVE to learn to become a GM, right?

Not really. Look at your past games (wins, losses, and draws), try to identify your strengths and weaknesses (if you can't, that's what coaches are for), and try to improve through practice. Make sure you don't have any knowledge holes. What are knowledge holes? If you lose many games in the same way (positional mistakes, mistakes in opening theory, mistakes in endgame theory, trouble attacking, trouble defending, tactical oversight), you should work on that area. Please not that "tactical oversight" only counts for regular, balanced positions in which you randomly blundered; if you are positionally lost and you blunder, you did not lose because of the blunder. I have seen too many players blame their losses on the final mistake.

If you don't think you have specific weaknesses (which, no offense, as a 2000 player, you probably do), you should also try honing your strengths. Usually, how do you win games against players of similar or higher strength (if you don't beat higher-rated players, that's an issue, but most likely a psychological issue, honestly)? If you are great at endgames, tweak your openings to send you straight into a queenless middlegame. If you love attacking, play sharp openings (but make sure you can defend, too), and continue to train in that area.

I also want to talk about intuition and pattern-recognition. These two skills are entirely products of your subconcious; you will not get anywhere trying to recognize patterns actively. Just play a lot, practice a lot, and it will come naturally. Of course, you have to analyze your games... and bullet doesn't really help much since you are probably thinking about flagging a lot more than you are about playing. Also, intuition isn't something that you unlock as you get better. If I give you a random position and immediately ask you for your opinion, you will problem say something along the lines of "X move looks good". You won't have a reason other than it being somehow visually appealing to you. The better you get, the more accurate this feeling will be. If you really want to improve your intuition, alter your training to have more blitz (but analyze all your games) than calculation training. Some very strong players I know follow this methodology as the NYC coach and grandmaster Alexander Lenderman endorses and teaches it.

As for you, specifically, I would definitely take a look at your past games and look at the positions where you said you struggle to find a decent move. Do you understand the "right" moves? Do you understand why you didn't consider them? Maybe the position is already uncomfortable for you (personally, I hate really closed positions), in which case try to avoid those types of positions through your opening choice or try to get better at them (this is easier said than done, though, you probably need a training partner or coach).

 

TLDR: look at your past games, find your weaknesses (a coach can be helpful here), and improve them

Kowarenai

i mean i am not good, i have just played so many positions and same stuff that i improve very subtly and understand more key ideas in playing positions especially when they are dry

llama36

Yeah, there's no special trick to get ____ rating. There's more than 1 way to get to each rating... and especially from 2000 to 2500 lol. That's such a large gap... what, do you think someone is going to say "do X" and suddenly you gain 500? No... try gaining 100 points at a time.

Duck

Thanks everyone. Reviewing my games now, I feel kind of silly on how many blunders from my opponent that I overlooked. There also seems to be a problem with my opening theory that shouldn't come as a surprise to me, since i don't study openings. I also agree with Box's point on intuition, and how I just have to work on my pattern recognition. Eventually my "gut feeling" will improve. Again, thanks for all the feedback. happy.png 

BoxJellyfishChess

One more thing (since I started writing before I saw some of these comments):

If you've studied economics, you'll know about the princple of marginal diminishing returns. This applies heavily to learning actual knowledge. A beginner greatly benefits from new knowledge, but at 2300, I think you're better off just practicing instead of diving through books for new stuff.

However, your question asked about 2000s vs 2500s. I say there are 4 main knowledge differentials:

1. Material vs Initiative: this is very difficult stuff. Essentially just understanding positional sacrifices (there are some books that can help)

2. Defense: no one really tries to learn defense, but it's really important for norm-seeking

3. Opening theory: I am not an opening person, but I can still win games out of the opening against <2200s who play utter trash openings.

4. Endgame theory: Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual, believe it or not, is an manual about endgames by a man named Mark Dvoretsky. 

Most grandmasters will also have a better positional understanding, but that doesn't have much to do with knowledge. Also, believe it or not, most grandmasters (exceptions: the young ones, and the really good ones) have worse calculation than us kids. They blunder a lot.

 

Duck

It's nice to know that even grandmasters make mistakes. I've come to the realization that I need to make moves that improve my position, not weaken it. I find myself always on the defensive side instead of the attacking side, and in time controls like 3 +0 and 1 +0, it can really take time to find a move that defends rather than one that attacks. I also hate games where my opponent castles on the opposite side because I have trouble deciding whether I should defend, attack, or counter-attack. I also have trouble giving away extra material because it's just an instinct to hog the material I gained. But saving the game is more important than saving material. Hopefully I can utilize this newfound information and introduce it into my future games. happy.png 

Duck

And I'm taking economics this year lol, thanks for the foresight.

BoxJellyfishChess

Yeah, it's one thing to read about positional sacrifices and another thing to actually make them. Just my opinion, but whenever I play online, I always try to undervalue material, because if I take too much risk and lose, it doesn't matter too much. That way, you can get some experience with positional sacrifices and be more comfortable when the time comes to play one in a tournament.

You can also avoid opposite-side castling almost entirely if you are smart with your opening choices. Personally, I avoid it too tongue.png

But if you do manage to get yourself into something like that, when in doubt, always attack lol, as you said, it's harder to defend than it is to attack, especially in blitz

Duck

Yeah, I started playing a lot of chess.com lately to prepare for the upcoming season of OTB tournaments here in Hawaii. The director that's in charge of all the OTB tournaments here was just replaced, and the new one made the tournaments FIDE rated. So I'm actually going to start grinding chess tournaments and push for a title lol

Chuck639
ScatteredWealth wrote:

Yeah, I started playing a lot of chess.com lately to prepare for the upcoming season of OTB tournaments here in Hawaii. The director that's in charge of all the OTB tournaments here was just replaced, and the new one made the tournaments FIDE rated. So I'm actually going to start grinding chess tournaments and push for a title lol

Best of luck!

BoxJellyfishChess
ScatteredWealth wrote:

Yeah, I started playing a lot of chess.com lately to prepare for the upcoming season of OTB tournaments here in Hawaii. The director that's in charge of all the OTB tournaments here was just replaced, and the new one made the tournaments FIDE rated. So I'm actually going to start grinding chess tournaments and push for a title lol

I don't know the regular time control for Hawaii local tournaments, but all FIDE-rated events have a 30-second increment (you will have more time than before). Maybe try playing more rapid and blitz instead of bullet lol

tygxc

#1
"what separates a 2500+ player from a 2000 rated player"
++ Endgames
You can see that in Swiss open tournaments.
The 2000 players get through the opening and middlegame quite well against the 2500 grandmasters, but then get slaughtered in the endgame, especially rook endings.