The English Language

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DrSpudnik

It puts the lotion in the basket! Yell

LoekBergman

I would use 'one' in this case.

User x has disconnected. One has 5 minutes to reconnect.

In Dutch we have the third person singular neutral pronoun 'men'. It is quite formal language and most of the times only used in written language. A lot of people dislike it (not me) and will use 'je' (= you singular), 'we' (= us), 'ze' (=they) or 'hun' (=their) instead. I translate 'men' preferrably with one or you singular. I did not know that 'they' was possible, but just as I would not use it in Dutch for a singular pronoun, would I not think about it to use it in English.

It might be interesting to tell that 'ze' is ideally used when the listener and the speaker are both not involved. That is clearly the case in this message from chess.com. It is the third person, who is the subject of the sentence.

bigpoison
Ziryab wrote:

The singular "they" was used once or twice by Jane Austen, which causes all sorts of misguided English teachers to justify its use 6 to 8 times per sentence in modern usage. 

 

Used, use, and usage?  Not quite eight times in the same sentence, but makin' progress!

Ziryab

Good eye, Big. I knew that someone would catch that.

"[L]anguage is never innocent: words have a second-order memory which mysteriously persists in the midst of new meanings. Writing is precisely this compromise between freedom and remembrance." 
Roland Barthes, _Writing Degree Zero_ 

Dadnavy71

They meaning  his home network, his ISP provider, if he is on phone the cellular network and associated network architecture, MSC to CO, perhaps the word "they" was employed so you think about just blaming Johnny. When a disconnect occurs who shall we cite! (network architecture may vary of course more modern could employ totally different up to date style infrastruture)

Dadnavy71

Sorry not staff, please did not mean to leave impression as if I were, but they as employed in information message that is a good question.

Bluecavebear

So who is the main authority to answer this question? Oxford Dictionary, American Heritage Dictionary or something like that?

Ziryab
Bluecavebear wrote:

So who is the main authority to answer this question? Oxford Dictionary, American Heritage Dictionary or something like that?

In matters of grammar and usage, there is no central authority. Even for academic writing, differences exist. Even The Chicago Manual of Style is not universally regarded as superior to its competitors, and it fails to resolve this question with authority.

ollave

Hey, Australians don't use quite British English or American English.

We're closer to British in spelling (or were: current schooling may differ, but we just changed government and the Labor (sic) party is out of power; "Labour" is arguably the more correct spelling outside of a name).

The main difference I see in Australian English is the use 's' a lot of times where 'z' would be used for "-ize" word endings otherwise.

The Macquarie Dictionary is probably as close as it gets to an authority for Australian English, although personally other than checking for Australian spellings and/or usages my general "go to" reference would be the Shorter Oxford. Unless I'm being paid to write in American ...

Off topic to the original topic, I know. Sorry. A bit. Smile

DrFrank124c
Dadnavy71 wrote:

They meaning  his home network, his ISP provider, if he is on phone the cellular network and associated network architecture, MSC to CO, perhaps the word "they" was employed so you think about just blaming Johnny. When a disconnect occurs who shall we cite! (network architecture may vary of course more modern could employ totally different up to date style infrastruture)

That's a good point. I get disconnected sometimes through no fault of my own but because my ISP--Verizon--sucks. So by saying "they" instead of "he" they are not blaming me directly. 

aggressivesociopath
Ziryab wrote:

"Your opponent has disconnected, and has two minutes to reconnect."

This one strikes me as best.

I seem to have misplaced my Elements of Style by Strunk and White. I remember he/she usuage being critized heavily and believe Elements of Style was the source. Bryan Garner in The Redbook: A Manual of Legal Style advises the use of "he or she" only as a last resort to avoid gender specific language; when used in excess it "becomes obnoxious."

Capn_Pugwash

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/they

Example 2.

aggressivesociopath

Tector Gorch: Silver rings.

Dutch Engstrom: [upset] "Silver rings", your butt! Them's washers! Damn!

Lyle Gorch: Washers. Washers. We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!

Pike Bishop: They set it up.

Lyle Gorch: "They"? Who in the hell is "they?"

Sykes: [laughs hysterically] "They"? Why, they is the plain and fancy they, that's who "they" is! Caught you, didn't they? Tied a tin can to your tail. Led you in and waltzed you out again. Oh my, what a bunch! Big tough ones, hunh? Here you are with a handful of holes, a thumb up your ass, and a big grin to pass the time of day with. They? Who the hell is "they?"

Pike Bishop: Railroad men... bounty hunters... Deke Thornton.

 

Example 4. http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/they

Ziryab

My copy of The Elements of Style is the 3rd edition (1979). Some extracts:

"The use of he as pronoun for nouns embracing both genders is a simple, practical convention rooted in the beginnings of the English language." (60)

"Substituting he or she in its place is the logical thing to do if it works. But it often doesn't work, if only because repetition makes it sound boring or silly." (60)

"Alternatively, put all controversial nouns in the plural and avoid the choice of sex altogether, and you may find your prose sounding general and diffuse as a result." (61)

GreenLeaf14

hopeless6 wrote:

Just wondering....  Am I the only one who is annoyed over and over and over by the failure of the system to used the language properly?

I'm not talking about non-native speakers who make minor errors, but about the messages from chess.com itself.  To wit, "Johnny  has disconnected. They have 5 minutes to reconnected. They have 5 minutes to reconnect."       

Can't chess. com decide whether Johnny is one person or several persons?

Huh? Pretty picky aren't I?

You said :"to used"...nothing more to say:P

TheGrobe

The whole issue could be avoided with some better choices in sentence construction. E.g.:

"Johnny has disconnected and has 5 minutes to reconnect."

Ziryab

Paul Brians offers wise guidance: http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/they.html

TheGrobe
DeweyOxberger wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

The whole issue could be avoided with some better choices in sentence construction. E.g.:

"Johnny has disconnected and has 5 minutes to reconnect."

Try reading the thread before you comment, they have already made this suggestion.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll decide how I spend my time.

Ziryab
aggressivesociopath wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

"Your opponent has disconnected, and has two minutes to reconnect."

This one strikes me as best.

 

Thanks.

Ziryab
DeweyOxberger wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

The whole issue could be avoided with some better choices in sentence construction. E.g.:

"Johnny has disconnected and has 5 minutes to reconnect."

Try reading the thread before you comment, they have already made this suggestion.

Post #10.