The longer is the time control the worse i play...

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AllviewP9Lite

. I am extremely good at 30 seconds and 1 min chess rating way above 2k other site and even blitz 3 min I am 2k which is not something to brag but is above average... 5 is just little harder and 3+2 I am just not used to where to think how fast to play etc. the problem becomes way bigger when we talk about 15+10, 30 min +... I just can't focus.. I can't concentrate I lose interest.. get lazy and tired.. I can do hours non stop bullet and blitz but couple rapid game makes me tired.. so I went to OTB classic tournament to check how bad I am... to my surprise even strong players played quick in classic time control... but I really want to stop any fast time control and to play real chess.. I try but... difficult.. any tips?..

How to almost completely extract my fast play instinct and to force myself to play slow... problem is i have thousands of quick games and i am addicted.. my brain just want quick game. I get nervous if i stare at long game... even when i take 10-15 min for a move i blunder next move... wtf...

AllviewP9Lite

I tried one technique.. to stop any chess for a week and then try slow chess.. it didn help much.. but maybe have to try it again, cuz i did feel my desire for bullet game was decreased. Other problem is if i stop chess for too long i might never come back...
Had a lot of fun with bulelt and blitz , just want to have fun with rapid as well, there the joy is different and before i quit bullet and blitz i want to be sure i will like and can play rapid and slow. 

AllviewP9Lite

I used to think the same until i have tried them and got better. Basically you can play long game in 1 min chess if you don't blunder and know your opening or what to do and you have good vision and pattern recognition and quick reactions. Checkmates are common but usually the guy resigns or let his clock run out of time , and before you win on time you have to survive long enough and demonstrate really good skills with mouse, intuition, observation, defending and attacking well.

did i mention is extremely fun and the joy is completely different and also does not waste your time.

GodsPawn2016
AllviewP9Lite wrote:

. I am extremely good at 30 seconds and 1 min chess rating way above 2k other site and even blitz 3 min I am 2k which is not something to brag but is above average... 5 is just little harder and 3+2 I am just not used to where to think how fast to play etc. the problem becomes way bigger when we talk about 15+10, 30 min +... I just can't focus.. I can't concentrate I lose interest.. get lazy and tired.. I can do hours non stop bullet and blitz but couple rapid game makes me tired.. so I went to OTB classic tournament to check how bad I am... to my surprise even strong players played quick in classic time control... but I really want to stop any fast time control and to play real chess.. I try but... difficult.. any tips?..

How to almost completely extract my fast play instinct and to force myself to play slow... problem is i have thousands of quick games and i am addicted.. my brain just want quick game. I get nervous if i stare at long game... even when i take 10-15 min for a move i blunder next move... wtf...

Its called having a short attention span.  Read this...

http://www.statisticbrain.com/attention-span-statistics/

xman720

Here's a complete guess: You are used to using instinct to make moves, so you don't have an actual thought process. Therefore, it makes it hard to calculate for long periods of time because you don't know what to do.

 

It might help to make a checklist to go through for each move, sort of like a beginning chess player does. Derived from something like this:

 

1: Does my opponent have a threat?

2: if not, do I have a threat?

3: If not, how do I improved my worst placed piece?

 

But modified to whatever you like. and as specific as you want with as many steps as you want. I think this will help you focus because while your intuition is amazing you aren't as familiar with what the grandmasters are doing when they think for several minutes in a move, which is going through candidate moves and making pros and cons lists and then choosing what move they think is best or what move they think is least likely to be bad.

 

Also, as a 2000+ lightning player, your tactics ability both long and short is clearly absolutely amazing, so that's not a problem. I wouldn't try to do long tactics problems to improve your focus, because that doesn't really test your attention span. In a tactics problem, there is always something to calculate or a line to follow. You should focus solely on positions where there is no tactics, where in bullet or lightning you would just make a move, any move that doesn't make your position worse, and come up with a thought process for yourself to actually find the best move in those positions or a really good plan in those positions.

AllviewP9Lite

Actually i am familar - i read the book Chess Thinker and even i know how from Class E to Master thinks in a game. I am aware how to choose candidate move or what to consider after a move. Problem is i just don't do it or not in every move. It's a bit chaostic, but i heard GM Jan who is 2600 GM also confirms his thinking process is chaotic from time to time, but his huge knowledge about positions often saves him and know which move to play. That is exactly what happened in one of my long OTB games. Opponent started to calculate deep.. deep.. but i knew what his move would be.. We exchanged quick pieces and it was rook endgame.. he blundered , because he already was in time pressure and i won.. He was higher rated and better than me, totally outcalculated but he lost..

But you are wrong about my tactical capabilities. I suck when calculating long - position becomes foggy in just 3-4 moves and i often visualize wrong but i end up playing a move quick anyway because of "exitment" thinking i saw a good move...Often that move is correct, but my opponent don't have much time to calculate deeper and they miss their chance, they trusted on me or something, because of my high rating and quick play.. I can't believe i did not captured a single pawn that will bring me +1 with safe position OTB against 1850 FIDE and might have won that game.... instead i moved my knight thinking i have a forcing fork in just couple of moves more, but it was blind spot or something and i lost after few more moves.. Long tactical combination is defintely something i have to practice to improve my visualization and calculation..

My lack of practice i guess , patience and self discipline. Maybe i have to pick another sport where it drains my energy to the point where i am not nervous, but calm and relaxed .. i do not go to fitness club and that might be reason. With bullet i let all of my anger go.. but that only makes bad habbits for slow chess.

AllviewP9Lite

No i am not the type of patzer style player who makes one move threat and silly cheap traps - maybe in unrated game vs low rated or from time to time some sac so to be more interesting. Above 2k actually we start to play good moves..  In a fast game i am fully concentrated because my mind does not stop , position changes quickly and keeps me interested.

In a long game i can't think without to stop and often the game gets "cold".. i lose track of something or do not see obvious move that i will play instantly in quick game.. Also other stuff is going on my head and i lose focus and the feel of wasted 1 hour for nothing just kills me. But interesting enough , a bad repetive sound.. open-closing doors or bad music does not have much effect on my concentration if it is 3 min quick game..

AllviewP9Lite

I use this account mostly to chat with specific friend and mostly for unrated fun practice games and to create some forum topics, cuz other real one  got muted or something - i think my message did not reach staff have to send it again, cuz if been 2 weeks or so . Games with this one don't matter Will delete it soon. 

AllviewP9Lite
hari2017 wrote:

What's really the point of those very short games, clocked at 60 or 30 seconds? You make 5-10 moves, and one of you wins on time. Wining on time isn't quite the same as checkmating. What am I missing here?

Here you can see GM playing 30 sec super-bullet tournament. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHc-5dZxuSg

Rasta_Jay

I agree with Zac.. You are used to setting traps, complications that are dubious, but will make your opponent lose if they don't find the right move.. I checked one of your games and you blundered 7 times.. Maybe you just play fast and make your opponents lose on time, most of the time..

Cherub_Enjel

Actually, you're about as good in bullet as you are in rapid - your percentile rank is about the same for both: 96% vs 97%. 

If you want to get better at rapid, it's not a quick fix probably, but you actually have to get better at the game. 

AllviewP9Lite

I am 2050 bullet and blitz here (it would be higher for bullet but my connection on this site is horrible and it lags) and 1750 rapid, 2100 tactics, players with like 5 000 rapid games with already strong tought process are just killing me...

Cherub_Enjel

Well, 1750 rapid on this site isn't bad - the rapid ratings aren't as inflated as the bullet/blitz ratings, so it's actually close, I believe. 1750 rapid should be like 97-98%, while 2050 bullet is also around 98%, 2050 blitz is about 99%. 

So maybe you're a bit worse in slow compared to speed, but it's reasonably close. 

 

 

Cherub_Enjel

This isn't lichess, where everything is inflated by like 400-500 points, so if your rating is lower here than on lichess, it shouldn't be surprising, especially in rapid, chess960. 

I would suggest stop playing speed games and work on slowly analyzing everything.

 

In a typical chess game, there's a lot of stuff going on - don't you want to find out everything that's going on in the position? That takes time. So you want to have to care about the position a lot. 

Slow_pawn

How are you in positional type games, AllviewP9Lite? When those really tight, positional games come up I find it hard to see weaknesses and don't often know how to proceed. I'll make a mistake just by pushing a pawn and leave a hole for my opponent to exploit or something. Those games seem to come up more often in rapid games, for me anyway. When there are weaknesses and tactics present I play better, in positional games I play worse. I've been reviewing master games of certain openings to help me to formulate a plan better in games like that. Anyway this is my experience, just wanted to mention it.  

AllviewP9Lite

Hm, very good notice @Cherub

@slow_pawn Well , how can one answer such question when you started chess with 1-3 min time control? I have just few hundreds rapid games compared to 10k+ 1 and 3 min games. I mean either you dont know your style or say something like  I tend to develop all pieces and then go for attack in bullet/blitz but sometimes ofcourse i choose gambits for early attack.. But i do like positional chess just.. why bother playing positional when goal is to checkmate the king? That's the reason i choosed to play more agressvie openings... Unfortunately my very first OTB game in my first Tournament with black i was forced to play long positional game.. i just did not know how to attack against 1.f4 .. if i reply 1..e5 i got scared i wanted not to lose quick my first game.. So i did very well positionally and won vs 1800 fide lol.. but not my choice.. I mean i am no master with pieces.. sometiems my pieces are on wrong squares you know... i don't like that.. let's just go fot the kill.. i might say i am ballanced... but not sure.. i just don't have much long games. But yea you are right me too hate closed games.. opponent just block everything and wants draw.. just pathetic or he trades in french exchange.. i have no problem with that, because i trust in my endings..

AllviewP9Lite
StupidGM wrote:

For the heck of it I played a 3-0 blitz game, really "slow" since I'm a bullet player, got a crushing position...and lost on time.

Yea, as a speed player when i played 60+30 last week my first OTB games/touri said to myself they know you are no classic player and they will know you are blitz player.. so whatever they do, play slow.. And that what happeend i played slow and was in time trouble LOL.. But my opponent did tricks on me.. they played quick so i can play quick.. etc and other dirty tricks like they capture something and they wait.. like having pen in hands so they expect me to re-capture back.. and i did it and it was a blunder LOL...

The_Chin_Of_Quinn

I've had the same experience @allviewp9lite. Like you said, in long games you might make blunders you don't make when playing bullet.

The main difference is in long games what you want is to calculate a line, visualize the end, and render an evaluation. Then calculate a different line, visualize the end, and render another evaluation. And finally compare the two evaluations to see which is better. This is basically what analysis is, and you never need to do it in bullet games.

In bullet what I'm aware of is a more non-verbal and non-calculative feel for how many pieces protect which squares, and a feel for timing (like if my threat is 1 ply away, and their's is 2 ply, then they can counter, but if my threat is 1 ply, and theirs is 4 ply, then they're forced to react or lose material). It's a totally different skill and one that's not very useful in long games.

So how do you switch? Well, like you said the problem is speed games are a lot of fun. Maybe you can't switch tongue.png Just be honest with yourself which you enjoy more. If you really do want to play long games, then you'll need to practice proper analysis.

cornbeefhashvili
AllviewP9Lite wrote:

. I am extremely good at 30 seconds and 1 min chess rating way above 2k other site and even blitz 3 min I am 2k which is not something to brag but is above average... 5 is just little harder and 3+2 I am just not used to where to think how fast to play etc. the problem becomes way bigger when we talk about 15+10, 30 min +... I just can't focus.. I can't concentrate I lose interest.. get lazy and tired.. I can do hours non stop bullet and blitz but couple rapid game makes me tired.. so I went to OTB classic tournament to check how bad I am... to my surprise even strong players played quick in classic time control... but I really want to stop any fast time control and to play real chess.. I try but... difficult.. any tips?..

How to almost completely extract my fast play instinct and to force myself to play slow... problem is i have thousands of quick games and i am addicted.. my brain just want quick game. I get nervous if i stare at long game... even when i take 10-15 min for a move i blunder next move... wtf...

It's not that you play worse, but the extended time gives your opponent extra time to think of a better move instead of making a move based on superficial characteristics of the position.

The_Chin_Of_Quinn

In bullet games you try to find why your move might be good. If it might be good, you immediately play it.

In long games you try to find why your move might be bad. After comparing multiple moves, you play the one that's least bad.