Threefold repetition - yes or no?

Hi all,

I'm losing this game right now: https://www.chess.com/daily/game/221986148

As you can see, on three occasions the exact same position occurred: after my (Black's) 36th, 38th and 40th move. When I did the 40th move, I was relieved to have saved a draw. The screen went to the next game immediately, so I returned to the game and clicked 'draw'. By that time, my opponent had already played his 41st move, however. To my astonishment, a draw was then offered to my opponent (who understandably refused), and it was not claimed.

So, my question is: why was the claim not accepted? Is it not a 3-fold somehow (though I'm sure it is)? Should I have offered a draw before my 40th move, and then played my 40th move to complete the repetition? Is it a glitch? I'm in the dark here. I'd like to hear your opinion.

I think you would have had it if you had claimed it after your 40th before he moved.

Now it is too late. You must starting counting again.

The draw was not accepted because the draw claim has to happen before you opponent makes their next move. It's been a while since I've played Daily, but I don't think making the offer before the move works.

After making the move, the option to Claim will be there.

Thanks for the answers, that's maybe the most likely explanation. I understand it won't sound convincing but it feels unfair - I clicked 'Draw' within half a minute of making my move, I think, and in Daily Chess that's probably quick enough in 99,9% of the cases. Bad luck...

I have found 3-fold is kinda complicated in that, like u show, it doesn't hafta happen simul. Also, it's actually 2.5-fold as ur opponent makes their 3rd repetitious move, then before ur 3rd rep ?....u claim the draw & get it.

So, as I see it ?, u needed to claim it BEFORE ur move of 41. Bg2. 'Cuz once u make move 41. all bets are off. THEY needed to to claim it AFTER ur 41. 'cuz they were the one completely lost. 

I am black (and lost) in this position. And I claimed it after his 41st move, as I wasn't quick enough to find the game again and claim a draw before he moved. Probably would've worked if I claimed it after my 40th move.

Ohh. So after move 41. Bg2, u can claim the draw before ur 41st move.

Online, I think one must ask for a draw when it's their move AND before it.

****

....and claim a draw before he moved.

I think by then it wuz too late....I think.

The position hasn't repeated thrice. 

So if I try to do a 3-fold repetition my opponent can avoid it by setting up conditional moves?

Oh, I guess chess.com auto claims after 5 or something right?

Then you'll have to tell me the difference between the positions after black's 36th, 38th and 40th move.

Oh, you're right. I considered the moves instead of the position. Sorry.

I don't know about the correct procedure in playing at the computer , but in an over -the -board game you had to write down your move 40 .. Q e4 + without making it  on the board. Then you had to stop the clock and claim a draw by announcing your next move Q e4+ , which you had written down at you score sheet and would repeat the position the third time. After making the move on the board you forfeit the right to claim the draw for that move at that moment. 

To cut a long story short: Your opponent made a move which repeated the postion the third time( be aware it doesn't have to be in the row, but the castling rights and possibility of taking en passent etc. have to be the same) : you stop the clock and claim a draw . Your next move will repeat the position the third time: you write down your move on the score sheet without making the move at the board and stop the clock by claiming a draw  with announcing your written down move which will repeat thevposition the third time. I am not sure how to translate that into playing at the computer.

No problem, I'm glad to hear your opinions as I had begun to doubt myself.

Thanks, this knowledge might come in handy when I play in some tournament one day.  I think I'll e-mail chess.com about this, to know about the online procedure.

I don't know for sure if five-fold repetition has been implemented or not. But, if you can't claim the draw before the third repetition, I think a conditional move would prevent it.

Which would be kinda ridiculous. I contacted Chess.com about it but a reply takes 1-2 business days so we'll have to wait a few days.

As expected, I lost the game, meanwhile.

Oh, I hadn't considered non-forced repetition. Yeah you were cheated out of a draw.

This is a bad design by chess.com, but it might take their programmers 10 months to fix it, so I wouldn't expect to see this changing. They'll be working on stuff like phone apps and puzzle rush games to boost revenue.

Yeah, you have to claim it at the exact time that a position is showing for the 3rd (or higher) time.  That means either your opponent makes a move that creates the threefold and you claim it before you move, or you make a move to create the threefold and must claim it afterwards, but before they move to break the threefold.

The best way to make the claim afterwards is to change it from "move to the next game" to "stay on this game" by clicking the arrow next to the "share" icon.  Then, after you make your move, you can claim the draw.

Of course, if your opponent has set up a conditional move, this will still make it so that you don't have time to make your claim before the position changes.  Requests to have a way around this quirk (for example, being able to claim the draw and then make your move to confirm the claim... i.e., if the move does not create a threefold, then the draw button was an offer and not a claim) have been made for at least the past several years, but nothing has apparently been done about it.  They may feel that the situation does not happen often enough to spend the time/effort to code it in.