True or False Chess is a Draw with Best Play from Both Sides

Sort:
lfPatriotGames
Optimissed wrote:

Sorry about that and I apologise. I hadn't noticed I was responding to you. I was just generally irritated by having to correct the post.

No worries. I understand nobody likes someone else misrepresenting what they said. 

ponz111

Optimissed  One reason I was surprised at what I thought was your staterment was because I remembered  that your previous statements seemed logical and thought out. 

So now, I realize it was not your statement and I am sorry for my misunderstanding. 

Peace.  wink.png

Account_Suspended

so is the dead horse beaten enough here? maybe take a rest, wait a couple more years and then continue?

zborg

Or simply pause, (take a deep breath), and brace yourselves for another 3000 upcoming posts, and another seven years of discussion in this thread!  grin.png

GilbertJiangHB

 

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

right now, chess seems like a draw. tho w/ more dissertation ?...that may change. given that, i feel that its cuz theres only (8) pawns. it doesnt seem as tho a full point (as quantified) can be genned to make a promotion. there isnt the board space available.

saying all that, i feel that a win can be got if, say, 1 e4 f5. iows, theres some openings where a 'pawn gets promoted' can be had in as little as the first move (like in The Fred). AND i dont believe that black ever-ever has the ability to force a win onto white. only cuz the initiative doesnt seem winnable in practice. iows, black can never turn proactive so long as white remains the proactor (relegating black to reaction).

Crispy2BA

I think the idea of "best play" is a myth. It's often used in situations like "white has mate in 4 with best play from black", which just means black can play moves which will determine how quickly he will lose. There are opportunities where white might blunder mate in 4, but "best play" is basically irrelevant. 

JimDiesel22
Crispy2BA wrote:

I think the idea of "best play" is a myth.

Define best play

ponz111

We have defined for this forum "best play" is to not make a mistake which would alter the theoretical end result of the game,.

 

ponz111

In the above position "best play" will result in  a win for Black.  And any one move by White or Black will not change the truth that best play will result in a win for Black.  Not only that but Black may have millions of way to do "best play" i n order to win the game.

So "best play" happens quite often in chess where one side has a certain amount of material advantage.

ponz111

No need to delete "best play" as it happens quite often.  Even Mr JimDiesal has had positions where "best play" by him would result in an obvious result.

JimDiesel22

I'd rather be bad at chess than be brain dead enough to think this forum came up with a definition for "best play".

ponz111

Jim  a definition was needed because of the title of this forum.  It should be obvious to you that a definition of "best play" was needed. And long ago we came up with a reasonable definition of "best play"

JimDiesel22

Chess has only one objective, so what you're saying is you came up with a definition for best. What other definition of "best play" would you land on? Who moves the fastest? As if it weren't more obvious, you wrote the title of the forum.

dude0812

The question of this forum is whether 1) for every series of moves that white can play, black has corresponding series of moves that leads to a draw and 2) for every series of moves that black can play, white has corresponding series of moves that leads to a draw. Drawing positions that both of these statements are true. The positions is winning for white if and only if the 1st statement is false and the 2nd is true. The position is winning for black if and only if the 1st statement is true and the 2nd is false. Best play by black is such a play that whatever series of moves white plays black would be able to draw

ponz111

Jim the definition of "best play" fits the question posed by this forum. Another definition such as "who moves fastest" would not fit the real question this forum is about. 

Of course I wrote the title of this forum.  It is an interesting question for many.  However for the very best players it is not as interesting as they assume that with best play chess is a draw.

dude0812

Now we can define "best play". Best play for Black are all series of moves by black that do not lead to white's victory no matter what series of moves white plays. Best play for Black in a winning position for Black are all series of moves that lead to Black's victory no matter what series of moves White plays. Best play for Black in a losing position for black does not exist in objective terms, you can make a position tricky while you are losing but that's subjective, any being with a perfect knowledge of the game of chess would beat you whatever you play.

JimDiesel22

Holy sh*t. You might be the dumbest person I've ever met. Honestly. I don't think I've ever experienced someone interpreting two obviously rhetorical statements in a row as literal. You literally thought I was wondering if the fastest play was best play and if you wrote this forum.

Best play is a concept I could explain to an 8 year old. The fact that you waffled over this shows how ill-equipped you are to answer any logical question. I feel bad for anyone who has to talk to you.

dude0812

I will improve my definition a little bit. I need to define the term "best move" first. Best move in the position is any move that keeps drawn position drawn or a winning position winning.

dude0812

Best play is nothing but serious of best moves. I rest my case. I defined best play through best move (which I defined through winning and drawing positions which I defined in my first comment on this forum)