True or False Chess is a Draw with Best Play from Both Sides

Correct because a hypothetical hedgehog could be VERY smart. 

If it's chess and not politics I don't mind the sensationalism so much;  What an incredible sacrifice!  I've seen many examples of games with sacrifices where Black has development trouble with his queenside, but it's striking to me how early the sacrifice was made and how all the opportunities black has to give some of the material back all seem to fail.  Also interesting how Leela doesn't even have to rush while Stockfish king is in the middle, but can play seemingly quiet moves.

I do think that after witnessing the game we as humans can try to make logical sense of what happened according to classical chess principles, but such rules are always a little ad hoc.  I'm positive I would never have found that novelty without computer help. 

Now he's saying it's been proven. The person that proved it, no matter who it was, certainly deserves some recognition. 

That's why it's called faith.

Nikki I DID NOT SAY

 any strong player would

have found that move.

I am saying correspondence players at the highest levels likely would have found that move if they were forced into that position I am saying under correspondence conditions I  would probably   have   found that move.  The motive is not knew to me and I know how to force some games into a split position. 

I have several times found the right continuation that the best chess engines could not find. and without a chess engine

. The main reason  the hundreds of players  did not find that move is they were not as strong as the best correspondence players. But there are other reasons also. 

One of your problems is you ae not strong enough at chess to see these things

That whole variation of the Ruy Lopez is inferior and Stockfish did not

 find the best moves in that variation

.I am guessing Stockfish was programmed wrong  as an earlier version

 lost to Alpha Zero in  a similar way?

Nikki  one pf the weakness of some engines is that they are forced to play bad openings.

Being forced t play  Black side of 1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6  3, Bb5  Bc5?! Gives it close to a losing position..

Being forced to play Black in the Dutch gives the best engines a losing position.

Being forced to play Black in this Center Counter line  1. e4  d5  2. exd5  Qxd5  3. Nc3   Qd6 also gives a losing position.  As you become stronger in chess you will realize that "book"is  not  " gawd". 

I would love to start every game with a plus 1.1 advantage--then I would beat even more GMs. 

Nkki again you show a lack of chess knowledge.  One of he top correspondence players would have found that move.

And it does ,matter that it was an inferior opening.

Why do you say Leela flushed that advantage down the toilet with her move 8? Did you miss that she won   that game and her move 8i was a very nice move???

GMprop is correct. In the Ruy Lopez the 3rd move with 3. ....Bc5 by Black is terrible. Without that move--the rest would not have fallen in place fallen in  place for the dramatic and incredible attack that ensued.

I would add that there are millions of positions where there are several best moves--all equally good. 

But for purpose of this forum we are defining "best move" as any move that is not an error that changes the ultimate result of the game to a worse result. [from a draw to a loss or from a win to a draw or a loss]

There are several possible definitions of "best move" which could be used but for this forum we decided to use the definition mentioned.

Here is a position-White to move--where there are several possible best moves.

There is nothing wrong with the 3...Bc5 variation. But the wheel will not be re-invented- after 4.c3 Black should play something less silly than the highly antipositional line played by Stockfish in that game ( a bishop stuck at c8 and a rook at a8 for almost all the game). 

Exactly! There could be millions of hedgehogs in the world and all it takes is one genius hedgehog to disprove the claim that your IQ is higher. That means the only way to know that you're smarter is to give an IQ test to every hedgehog that exists. Otherwise you have no proof that your IQ is higher. And without this proof, nobody knows if it's true that they are smarter than hedgehogs.

Draw!

Rocky64 and Michael Marmorstein

you gave a wonderful analogy to one of the arguments quite a few here are making!

I would add there are billions of galaxies which might have planets with hedgehogs and no one knows if there might be one hedgehog with a higher IQ?

I wonder what Sonics IQ is, then???

The Ruy Lopez line with 3. ... Bc5 gives White a big practical advantage.  It was enough to defeat that one version of Stockfish. However I don't know if 3. ... Bc5  could end in a draw by a better chess engine than Stockfish?

Why, yes, this hedgehog could already have solved chess but thought it was too trivial to share the results with us!

Here is a very quick and casual analysis . of the Ruy  3. ... Bc5 line. Of course if I had the position as White after 3. ... Bc5 in a correspondence game--I might use weeks or days to find my 4th move continuation.

i have a question ponzie. in 100 games, how many would one side (assuming white ?...1st move advantage ?) hafta win to convince one that chess is not a draw. 100-0-0...90-0-10...etc ?

a/o can feel free (feeling free feels sooo good !) to answer.