WC to be determined by fast chess - for shame!

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johnyoudell

It does seem a pity that we are not to see a longer series of classic games.  But there are monetary considerations I suppose.  From the player's perspective they have already forgone quite a lot of competitions preparing for the match and the match purse has shrunk to the level where it would start to hurt financially if the match stretched over too long a period.  And from the organisers perspective a longer match is more costly.

But perhaps the match conditions also pander a little to the short attention span of some spectators.

fabelhaft
johnyoudell wrote:

It does seem a pity that we are not to see a longer series of classic games.  But there are monetary considerations I suppose.  From the player's perspective they have already forgone quite a lot of competitions preparing for the match and the match purse has shrunk to the level where it would start to hurt financially if the match stretched over too long a period.  And from the organisers perspective a longer match is more costly.

But perhaps the match conditions also pander a little to the short attention span of some spectators.

 Couldn't agree more. Even if there also is a group of spectators that talk about wanting to see first to ten wins matches etc it is hard to imagine how little interest such matches would gain after a few months :-) But as long as neither players nor sponsors want to see longer matches I guess it is just to accept that those days are gone, and in a few years I wouldn't be surprised if the title matches disappear entirely. Too many months of preparation, hiring a team of seconds, etc.

ed1975
paulgamer wrote:

If FIDE ever expects a wider audience in the USA they must change this. Until they do it will continue to die here. You should see my local chess club. We don't have any members under the age of 50 any more.  The younger crowd just finds it boring and professional chess especially so.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that the average American cannot appreciate anything other than clear-cut, high-octane winning or losing situations? That they have attention-span deficits and cannot also appreciate complexity and profundity? Are these the real reasons chess is "dying" in America? If the average American cannot appreciate these things, why can apparently people from elsewhere in the world? Does it have to do with a diet of traditional American sports? Is interest in chess dying elsewhere in the world too? It doesn't seem to be.

50Mark
50Mark wrote:
0110001101101000 wrote:

You couldn't do straight 960 because some positions favor white too much.

Additionally, I think 960 is not as good a test because study adds depth to the game. In some ways 960 is a worse option than speeding up the games (if the players are basically guessing, then the winner just gets lucky).

A good way to tweak it would be have something like 5 pre-approved 960 positions. Then before the game begins each player could choose to remove 1 (or 2) of the starting positions. Then play would happen on the remaining 3 (or 1).

What about FE chess.The rooks position was represented by knight pieces and vice versa.We can use standard time control.

The other options are rooks - bishops switch and knight - bishop switch.

The rooks will move as knight and vice versa.

WobblySquares

I really like rapid chess, so can't complain about these play offs. A 4 game bonus.
25 10 is a nice timecontrol and with these guys quality is almost indistinguishable from their classical. If anything we can complain about the past 12 games and their quality.
So I guess it's not so much about the timecontrol rather the willingness to take risk.
To be fair the playing styles of these two guys together is also unfortunate. Karjakin has been digging himself in and not trying to win at all. Carlsen lost a game more than Karjakin won it. Carlsen typically atleast tries to play chess except game 12, but needs atleast a hope of something to go for. Is also a near perfect defender otherwise and you simply see the same happen in many other sports when you put two cautious defensive players or teams up against each other.
Next to going for some chess variant (960, 10x8 board grin.png etc. which won't happen for atleast another century) you simply need to select more diverse or daring players.
But that won't happen because of the nature of chess where cautious play = Elo, so I'm simply for a regular giant tournament with all qualified players like the candidates. But longer. And if one game is a 30 minute GM draw there's ten other ones to look at.

WobblySquares

Life is meaningless.

aln67

Every leisure has a potential target.

Our goal should be to touch the greatest number of persons in this target, but trying desperately to do more than that would lead to spoil the game with too much money, too much media, etc.

JoeD13
Is there any way to watch these games live?
stealth987

how can the classical world campion be determined by rapid and blitz?

 

Ziryab
JoeD13 wrote:
Is there any way to watch these games live?

 

https://worldchess.com/nyc2016/round-13/

RenegadeChessist

For everyone complaining about the short match, being fairly new to following competitive chess it's hard for me to imagine the match being any longer. I mean, bloody hell, it's been going on for nearly 20 days! That's pretty crazy when you think about, considering that most sports championships are determined in a single day or close to it.

I think the match length is perfect. If it was twice as long (as some people seem to want) then it would be hard to sustain people's interest.

ArgoNavis
stealth987 wrote:

how can the classical world campion be determined by rapid and blitz?

 

Because some people who don't know anything about chess (aka FIDE) think it makes sense

Nickalispicalis71

I would wager that many of these people that are berating Chess960 have never played it beyond just a game or two.  At first it does feel rather alien, but the more you play it, the more you can appreciate its beauty.  The same principles that apply to classical chess, apply to Chess960.  Develop your pieces, control the center, secure your king etc.  I truly believe that whoever would win the Chess960 championship (if we ever have one again) would be the player with the most ability in chess, because at the end of the day, that is it what it truly measures.  

People hate change.  I get that, but watching this WC or top level GM tournaments where 90% of the games are drawn spells the death spiral for classical chess.  I refer to the so called "Professional" chess player.  There will always be a market for amateur chess, as openings do not carry the same weight, ie; I play a dozen openings equally bad, and I am always varying.   No one can prepare for this, nor would they want too, as we are playing for fun.  

 

RenegadeChessist
Nickalispicalis71 wrote:

 I truly believe that whoever would win the Chess960 championship (if we ever have one again). . .

Is there not one? What happened?

Nickalispicalis71
RenegadeChessist wrote:
Nickalispicalis71 wrote:

 I truly believe that whoever would win the Chess960 championship (if we ever have one again). . .

Is there not one? What happened?

I think the last serious competition was the Chess Mainz in Germany back in 2013 ? It was won by Nakamura. 

 

RenegadeChessist
Nickalispicalis71 wrote:
RenegadeChessist wrote:
Nickalispicalis71 wrote:

 I truly believe that whoever would win the Chess960 championship (if we ever have one again). . .

Is there not one? What happened?

I think the last serious competition was the Chess Mainz in Germany back in 2013 ? It was won by Nakamura. 

 

I thought there was a Chess960 World Championship every year.

paulgamer
ed1975 wrote:
paulgamer wrote:

If FIDE ever expects a wider audience in the USA they must change this. Until they do it will continue to die here. You should see my local chess club. We don't have any members under the age of 50 any more.  The younger crowd just finds it boring and professional chess especially so.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that the average American cannot appreciate anything other than clear-cut, high-octane winning or losing situations? That they have attention-span deficits and cannot also appreciate complexity and profundity? Are these the real reasons chess is "dying" in America? If the average American cannot appreciate these things, why can apparently people from elsewhere in the world? Does it have to do with a diet of traditional American sports? Is interest in chess dying elsewhere in the world too? It doesn't seem to be.

No. The problem is the resolution and the deliberate pre-planned draw(s). That is totally unacceptable. Anyone that paid admission to be at that 12th game should demand a refund. Those clowns planned all along to have a draw and go to the ridiculous tie-breaker. They should play Classical chess until there is a winner, period. I will not be paying any attention to the tie-breaker today. It's meaningless. All we'll have is a World Chump that was too scared to try and win the REAL games. I certainly will never burn my money and time again on a Chess WC unless they change the rules. I resent watching  Ruy Lopez draws over and over and over again. It's ridiculous.

Barry_Helafonte2

good point

macer75
paulgamer wrote:
ed1975 wrote:
paulgamer wrote:

If FIDE ever expects a wider audience in the USA they must change this. Until they do it will continue to die here. You should see my local chess club. We don't have any members under the age of 50 any more.  The younger crowd just finds it boring and professional chess especially so.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that the average American cannot appreciate anything other than clear-cut, high-octane winning or losing situations? That they have attention-span deficits and cannot also appreciate complexity and profundity? Are these the real reasons chess is "dying" in America? If the average American cannot appreciate these things, why can apparently people from elsewhere in the world? Does it have to do with a diet of traditional American sports? Is interest in chess dying elsewhere in the world too? It doesn't seem to be.

No. The problem is the resolution and the deliberate pre-planned draw(s). That is totally unacceptable. Anyone that paid admission to be at that 12th game should demand a refund. Those clowns planned all along to have a draw and go to the ridiculous tie-breaker. They should play Classical chess until there is a winner, period. I will not be paying any attention to the tie-breaker today. It's meaningless. All we'll have is a World Chump that was too scared to try and win the REAL games. I certainly will never burn my money and time again on a Chess WC unless they change the rules. I resent watching  Ruy Lopez draws over and over and over again. It's ridiculous.

Yeah, there should be more 1. d4 draws.