Weaknesses
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Slow_pawn
Aug 6, 2017
0
#1
I think an area of my game that needs a lot if work is my own weaknesses. I can be dismissive while attacking my opponent and it gets me in trouble, especially against positionally strong players. Any good ways to train defensively?
Aug 6, 2017
0
#2
I learn best by repetition, like puzzles for instance. The concepts sort of drill in after doing them over and over. Wish there was a strictly defensive-positional puzzle site
Aug 6, 2017
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#3
What we were all taught when we started to learn.
Make sure your pieces are safe.
Aug 6, 2017
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#4
Thanks, IMBacon. I don't usually leave pieces hanging and pretty good at considering checks and captures, both mine and my opponent's. I guess I'm more or less talking about non forceful play that causes me a world of hurt when I miss the threat. For instance the last game I played I let my opponent plant his knight on d3 which I missed. What made things worse is that I had no f pawn and his queen was on b6. Not a nice position to be in. I need to train my thoughts to consider defensive play the same way I consider offensive play. But you're right, a big step to not blundering is to make sure your pieces are protected.
Aug 6, 2017
0
#5
Slow_pawn wrote:
Thanks, IMBacon. I don't usually leave pieces hanging and pretty good at considering checks and captures, both mine and my opponent's. I guess I'm more or less talking about non forceful play that causes me a world of hurt when I miss the threat. For instance the last game I played I let my opponent plant his knight on d3 which I missed. What made things worse is that I had no f pawn and his queen was on b6. Not a nice position to be in. I need to train my thoughts to consider defensive play the same way I consider offensive play. But you're right, a big step to not blundering is to make sure your pieces are protected.
If you play correspondacne chess. When you get to the middlegame, setup the position with just the pawns. Take note of where both sides have weak pawns, weak squares. That helped me.
Aug 6, 2017
0
#6
That is very good advice, bb_gum, thank you. I admit when I do puzzles online I often play a move that I'm certain is right, even though I don't see the solution to the end. I will give your advice a go. Thanks again, I appreciate it
Aug 6, 2017
0
#7
IMBacon wrote:
Slow_pawn wrote:
Thanks, IMBacon. I don't usually leave pieces hanging and pretty good at considering checks and captures, both mine and my opponent's. I guess I'm more or less talking about non forceful play that causes me a world of hurt when I miss the threat. For instance the last game I played I let my opponent plant his knight on d3 which I missed. What made things worse is that I had no f pawn and his queen was on b6. Not a nice position to be in. I need to train my thoughts to consider defensive play the same way I consider offensive play. But you're right, a big step to not blundering is to make sure your pieces are protected.
If you play correspondacne chess. When you get to the middlegame, setup the position with just the pawns. Take note of where both sides have weak pawns, weak squares. That helped me.
That's a good idea, thanks. I've actually read that somewhere before, but never tried it. I guess another way to do it would be to visualize the board with just the pawns during gameplay.
Aug 6, 2017
0
#8
bb_gum234 wrote:
Oh, and implied but not actually said is think about the types of moves that are involved in defense. When you make a big threat, like attacking a rook with a pawn, what are the types of moves the opponent can try?
For example they can move it, they can defend it (if it's important to keep that line closed), they can play an equal or bigger threat, they can sacrifice it in a way that claims their remaining pieces are more active than yours, they can play a check... they can also just completely ignore it (although that's sort of already included in the list above).
When you threaten mate, what are the types of moves to remove mate?
For example some ways to remove a mate threat are: play a check, threaten a faster mate (if theirs isn't forced right away), create an escape square (or run with the king), capturing an attacking piece, blocking a line, and defending a key square.
This is just off the top of my head, maybe someone can find more, but the point is not to memorize a list like this, the point is to try to think these up yourself, then when you miss a good defensive move think about why you missed it, and what kind of move it is.
Slow_pawn wrote:
That is very good advice, bb_gum, thank you. I admit when I do puzzles online I often play a move that I'm certain is right, even though I don't see the solution to the end. I will give your advice a go. Thanks again, I appreciate it
No problem, hope it helps, it helped me anyway
Missed resources for my opponents is also something I need to work on. I always see it as soon as I move, but not before.
Aug 7, 2017
0
#10
Thanks, bb_gum, pretty awesome of you to take the time to post this example. At first glance of the diagram for white I saw king f1 and then I realized if I blocked the check with the rook, black has to take with the knight, leaving his other knight free to take with check, and after that I could keep checking either by queening or with my already active queen. Also kf1 just seemed like trouble, I figured I'd have to be active instead. That's how I usually solve puzzles, not clear to the end but what I see as the most logical continuation. When I woke up and saw this post I looked at the diagram even before reading your post, came to the conclusion I mentioned above and then set it up on the board trying to employ some of the things you are talking about, and it really helped to see it all the way to the end as well as resources for both sides. Once I did that I did see Ng3 for black. Very helpful post man, thanks again.
Aug 7, 2017
0
#11
bb_gum234 wrote:
Hint
Candidate moves should be very forcing even if they look suicidal. When I looked at this puzzle for example one of the first moves I considered was Qxe1 trying to find a knight fork after the sac.
I'm usually pretty good at considering all captures and forcing moves, but not so good at seeing the continuation more then 2-3 moves ahead. Well sometimes I am like in the endgame, it depends how complicated the position is. If both sides have lots of possible responses it's a little harder.
Slow_pawn wrote:
I think an area of my game that needs a lot if work is my own weaknesses. I can be dismissive while attacking my opponent and it gets me in trouble, especially against positionally strong players. Any good ways to train defensively?
1. Botvinnik, among many others, say that the best way to work on your weaknesses is to go over your own games and annotate them yourself before going it over with a master.
2. He said that in the context of being a competitive OTB player at classical time controls.
Happy Training!
Aug 7, 2017
0
#13
SeniorPatzer wrote:
Slow_pawn wrote:
I think an area of my game that needs a lot if work is my own weaknesses. I can be dismissive while attacking my opponent and it gets me in trouble, especially against positionally strong players. Any good ways to train defensively?
1. Botvinnik, among many others, say that the best way to work on your weaknesses is to go over your own games and annotate them yourself before going it over with a master.
2. He said that in the context of being a competitive OTB player at classical time controls.
Happy Training!
Great advice. It gives the better player/coach a chance to know, and understand what your thought process was during the game.
Aug 7, 2017
0
#14
bb_gum234 wrote:
Slow_pawn wrote:
bb_gum234 wrote:
Hint
Candidate moves should be very forcing even if they look suicidal. When I looked at this puzzle for example one of the first moves I considered was Qxe1 trying to find a knight fork after the sac.
I'm usually pretty good at considering all captures and forcing moves, but not so good at seeing the continuation more then 2-3 moves ahead. Well sometimes I am like in the endgame, it depends how complicated the position is. If both sides have lots of possible responses it's a little harder.
When you say "I always see it as soon as I move, but not before" I assume it's something simple like an immediate threat you suddenly realize is really good for your opponent. I thought maybe setting up puzzles in reverse, with the first move not played yet like the thing I posted might be useful.
And maybe it's not useful, maybe you can do it in puzzles easily but you find it hard in games. I'm not sure what to suggest then, but if this works it's convenient because as you said you're looking for something you can do as a drill.
A lot of times I'll see a move that I think is killer and then immediately, the second I move the piece I see my opponent's resources, or as you say a threat that I missed, but I don't see it before the move. I think that has to do with poor concentration, something I've dealt with since I was a kid. That's why I like drills and puzzles to sort of train myself to see these things with subconscious thought. I've always learned that way. I love the idea of doing puzzles from the opponent's point of view. I wonder if you can flip the board in TT
Aug 7, 2017
0
#15
bb_gum234 wrote:
Maybe to train in games you could literally write down a short checklist you want to complete for each move, and literally check it off on every move.
You'd want a time control longer than you normally play, and you'd want to realize winning or losing isn't the goal (so your rating may go down a lot) the goal is to form new thinking habits.
Maybe you would even find it useful to do this against an engine set on a level way too hard for you to beat. That way it will always punish simple oversights, so you might be more motivated to check for them.
Whether this or something else, let's say you do some sort of training like this every day for a month, without playing any games with your "old" way of thinking. When you come back to regular games I'm sure you'll notice a difference
Just thinking out loud here, I haven't actually tried these things like I've done with the puzzles.
I love playing engines rated a couple hundred points higher than me. There's no real pressure and if I win 1 game out of 20 I feel like I triumphed lol. You are right, the engine will punish every oversight and I really have to zone in to win.
I don't care much about rating. I just want to be more of a solid player that checks all the boxes before I proceed into attacking. You've been very helpful and I really appreciate your suggestions, bb_gum. I've learned from it, thank you
Aug 7, 2017
0
#16
IMBacon wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
Slow_pawn wrote:
I think an area of my game that needs a lot if work is my own weaknesses. I can be dismissive while attacking my opponent and it gets me in trouble, especially against positionally strong players. Any good ways to train defensively?
1. Botvinnik, among many others, say that the best way to work on your weaknesses is to go over your own games and annotate them yourself before going it over with a master.
2. He said that in the context of being a competitive OTB player at classical time controls.
Happy Training!
Great advice. It gives the better player/coach a chance to know, and understand what your thought process was during the game.
That is good advice, SeniorPatzer