What are USCF rules concerning cell phone disturbances ?

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Ziryab
TurboFish wrote:

In my experience as a teacher and tutor of chemistry and algebra, most students are becoming increasingly averse to textbooks and thinking on their feet, and more dependent on the internet.  I must frequently remind them to study their textbooks, advice which they usually ignore.  Putting their textbooks online seems to have made the problem worse ("out of sight, out of mind").  And they are not happy to hear that "problem solving" involves patient step-by-step reasoning, not looking up factoids.  Academics now often use the term "infantilization" to refer this trend.

I teach at an average college, so maybe I'm not getting an accurate overall picture of what's going on.  I hope that there are enough high-achievers at the better schools to balance things out, but I'm not optimistic.

I have taught at Mediocre State U and Highly Selective Liberal Arts College. The top students are the same everywhere. The botton is higher when the college is highly selective. The laziness you are describing runs rampant everywhere that I've taught.

Diakonia
CBenefield wrote:
Diakonia wrote:

"The smarter technology gets, the dumber the people get"

This just isn't true, people are smarter than ever.  Modern technology has made information more available and more plentiful than ever before in world history.  You sound like Luddite repeating a meaningless platitude in an attempt to sound clever.

Intelligence doesnt equate to common sense.  As for the interwebz?  The 3 most common words searhed are: sex, free, and porn.  yes its more available, but that doesdnt mean people actually use that knowledge.  

The US has fallen farther and farther behind oither countries in math, science, etc.  But we do lead the world in flat screen tv's, social media, and the kardashians.  

Blindly staring at an electronic device doesnt mean youre intelligent.  

The modern day luddites would have there jobs sent to minimum wage thrid world countries.  Hows that for advanced technology?

Look up the definition of platitude.  Youll understand why it doesnt apply here.  

Critical thinking is out the window, because "there is an app for that"

Watch the movie Wall-E, and youll find out where we are headed.

AKAL1

There is no app for critical thinking. It's really the only skill that's not computerized now, but there's no reason not to be able to do simple tasks without technology.

bigpoison

Most tasks that actually accomplish work--outside of factory walls--are not computerized. Mechanized, sure, but with human operators.

ozzie_c_cobblepot

You know that feeling you get when you're trying to remember someone's name, and you don't know it yet, but you know you're CLOSE to remembering it? That is something for which I don't know of an analogue in the computerized world.

Contrast that with the "yeah I know I knew their name at some point but nope not anymore".

xxx_mlgkingscoper_xx
For all those who think the USCF is full of b.s, be grateful you actually have a decent chess organizing body unlike here in Canada with the CFC.
Irontiger
SmyslovFan wrote:

It's a solution to a problem that didn't exist. 

Writing down the moves isn't a big deal. Heck, even golfers are expected to keep score properly. Adding technology to a simple task was the big mistake.

While I agree that writing down the moves is no big deal for the purpose of scoring, having the games already in digital format has huge value - to feed it to a computer, to the chess.com crowd, to share it with an Australian friend, to keep a database searcheable by date / tournament / opponent / opening, etc.

I still think the drawback (easier cheating) is huge and hard to mitigate, but the advantages do exist, even beyond the "people nowadays are stupid and cannot write" rant.

TurboFish
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

We're one Monroi clone away from a cheating in plain sight controversy.

That concern has been around for a while now.  I would be very surprised if no one has hacked or faked a Monroi deivce by now.  And it facilitates cheating even in its unaltered state.  See the quote from the discussion linked below.

"The downside of Monroi is that I heard it can be used to communicate 
ongoing game scores and moves to remote locations -- thereby solving 
the cheater's problem of how to send information about the 
current board position to a remote accomplice."

Sam Sloan, USCF Executive Board, 2007

http://www.avlerchess.com/chess-analysis/MonRoi_and_the_Problem_of_Cheaters_104967.html

JamieDelarosa
ThrillerFan wrote:

The problem is USCF is behind with everything.

FIDE has a mandatory forfeiture of the first occurrance of a cell going off.

USCF is director disgression.  The most common that I've seen is first offense 10 minutes or half the time, whichever is less (like this is football or something, half the distance to the goal).  Second is forfeit of game (second occurrence of the tournament, doesn't have to be twice in the same game).  Third offense expulsion from the tournament.

 

So if my opponent's phone go off with 4 ticks left in the first time control with 5 second delay, whoopi, I lost 2 seconds!  Such utter BS!

 

The problem with the USCF is way too many rules are "director's disgression" and all these "variant 1", "variant 2", and whatever else they allow the TD disgression over.

 

Wake up USCF!  Quit the hogwash, and put in clear cut rules you FREAKING BRAINLESS GOOD-FOR-NOTHING MORONS!

 

YES - I'M POINTING AT YOU!  CALLING OUT EVERY FREAKING MEMBER OF THE USCF BOARD!

"Discretion"

TurboFish

I'm so glad that I had the opportunity to enjoy many years of OTB tournament chess before it became tainted by technologically enhanced cheating (and ringing cell phones).  The worst that I had to endure in my experience (1980 - 2010) was theatrics (e.g., someone faking despair over a supposed blunder which was actually a trap), or some snot-nosed kid drumming on the table.  Even phones weren't a distraction until recently.

Now I am reluctant to enter any tournaments with high entry fees, even though I would love to compete in the World Open again.  I pity the youth of today who won't get to experience the innocent period that I enjoyed.  From now on, it will be always be an arms race between cheaters and tournament directors.  And as in the case of military, encryption, and computer virus wars, the aggressor ("having the white pieces", so to speak) will always have the advantage, being one step ahead.

Martin_Stahl
Becky_the_Stabber wrote:
...

Frankly, the whole idea of a tournament director not enforcing the rules because he thinks he might scare off some casual players is supremely baffling to me.

...

The USCF isn't FIDE. Electronic devices in the playing hall are allowed and a phone ringing isn't an automatic forfeit (and most US tourneys are not FIDE rated).

The assumtion that cheating is rampant is going to do more harm to OTB chess then being accommodating to things that aren't cheating.

I have had one tourney where it was thought a person might be cheating and had nothing to do with a device in the room.

TheOldReb

Martin , see my first post .  Don't you think something should be done in a case like I described ?  I felt like standing up after the TD was warning everyone to turn their phones off and telling them that they could safely ignore the warning and leave their phones on because nothing is ever done about ringing cell phones so why heed the warning at all ? 

Martin_Stahl

If a TD is going to warn then they should follow through. I don't disagree with that.

Diakonia
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Becky_the_Stabber wrote:
...

Frankly, the whole idea of a tournament director not enforcing the rules because he thinks he might scare off some casual players is supremely baffling to me.

...

The USCF isn't FIDE. Electronic devices in the playing hall are allowed and a phone ringing isn't an automatic forfeit (and most US tourneys are not FIDE rated).

The assumtion that cheating is rampant is going to do more harm to OTB chess then being accommodating to things that aren't cheating.

I have had one tourney where it was thought a person might be cheating and had nothing to do with a device in the room.

The tournaments that i have attened, when the TD announces the "penalty" for a cell phone going off during a game.  The first offense is a 10 minute penalty.  Yea...that will show them.  During a crucial phase of the game, go ahead and cheat your way to victory as long as you have 11 minutes left.  

Martin_Stahl

I'm not ever going to claim that cheating doesn't happen. I will say that the vast majority of OTB chess players are playing honestly, especially in local, low money tourneys.

In areas with a much larger chess scenes and tourneys that pull in a lot more players where prize funds are more substantial, the situation is likely different. If I had 60+ players attending my events, I would likely adopt a much more strict set of rules and penalties. I still think that the likelyhood of cheating is low.

SmyslovFan

The problem with a phone ringing is that it disturbs the entire playing hall. If someone were to suddenly start shouting for no apparent reason, I would expect that player to forfeit. Same with a phone.

The phone ringing isn't a sign of engine use, it's a sign that the person who owns the phone is incompetent to play tnmt chess.

TurboFish

I agree SmyslovFan's point that a ringing phone disturbs the entire tournament hall.  And his post is the most relevant one with regards to the original topic of the thread.  Many of the players would be in deep thought calculating lines.  Too be needlessly interrupted by a ringing phone could actually affect game results.  This should not be tolerated at all.

With regards to cheating: while it is wise to not over-react and become too alarmist, as Martin_Stahl pointed out, it seems reasonable that the motivation to cheat will be directly proportional to the size of the cash prizes, and also directly proportional to the ease of cheating.  The ease of cheating will only increase with time.  So while small local low-money tournaments will be less affected (and maybe easier for the TD to scrutinize), I personally will be henceforth reluctant to enter the larger big-money tournaments.

TurboFish

"Nerdy" or not, there are several books delving into the relationship between math and chess.  Just because many people don't know or use much math doesn't mean it isn't important and relevant to many fields.  And if "nerd" means being good at multiple technical subjects, then I'm glad I'm a nerd.

Zweb

Diakonia who obsessed with cheating in this thread now has their account closed. In my experience those who obsess with cheating in Chess usually rationalize cheating themselves believing all their opponents do.

https://www.chess.com/member/diakonia

 

Martin_Stahl
Zweb wrote:

Diakonia who obsessed with cheating in this thread now has their account closed. In my experience those who obsess with cheating in Chess usually rationalize cheating themselves believing all their opponents do.

https://www.chess.com/member/diakonia

 


That account was not closed for fair play violations. That icon can mean that but it does not in many cases of older account closures and some back-end account closures that are not related to any violations.