What are Your Tricks and Tips For Playing the Italian Game?

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BigBroChess

Just asking because I usually get something like this where i literally go out of the book in the first few moves:

 

DanielGuel

3. b3 is not principled. You might want to develop your Bishop to g5 (rather than b2), so b3 kind of commits you to developing your Bishop to b2. Also, the Bishop on c4 lacks mobility with the light-squared pawns on a2, b3, and c2. Here is how a typical Italian game is played:

 

 

 

 

MickinMD

The point of Bc4 is that it attacks f7 and b3 works against keeping the B on the a2-g8 diagonal.

BigBroChess

Thanks for your advice! @Ginarook, @EOGuel, and @MickinMD.

sndeww

Try the Evans Gambit if you're that kind of person (I am), Garry Kasparov liked it.

 

kindaspongey
BigBroChess wrote:

Just asking because I usually get something like this where i literally go out of the book in the first few moves: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. b3 Nge7 4. Bc4 ...

You are not the only person to do this sort of thing, and I have a theory about it: It seems to me that it has become increasingly common for beginners to be told, "... Train yourself ... to make sure your pieces are protected, ….".

https://www.chess.com/article/view/how-to-start-out-in-chess

Now I understand that it is commonly considered to be reasonable to give beginners general principles, with the expectation that they can learn about exceptions later. However, in this case, it seems to me that the supposed principle is so spectacularly wrong, that the pretty much inevitable result will be that the trusting beginner will be acquiring seriously bad habits right from the start. Don't just about all openings involve moving pieces into unprotected positions? (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4, for example.) How can any game start sensibly if played by a beginner who feels constrained by this protection idea? I grant that the beginner runs a risk of blundering an unprotected piece, but taking that risk is a part of normal chess. True progress comes from experiencing such blunders and gradually acquiring the habit of being alert for accidental losses. It works against that process (and works against normal chess strategy) if one tries to avoid the problem by always keeping everything protected. From time to time, one may catch an adventurous opponent in a mistake, but, even then, it will be the opponent who has the beneficial learning experience. The protection player will lose more and more often to the player who is working on learning to be active with the pieces.

I hope that I do not give the impression of being harsh towards BigBroChess. 3 b3 is, I think, becoming an increasingly common sort of mistake, caused by this overly casual advice to beginners. From time to time, one sees some sort of qualification such as:

"... Of course, sometimes leaving things undefended is okay …"

https://www.chess.com/article/view/beware-of-undefended-pieces

However, the protection idea seems to me to be so seriously wrong that it is better not to mention it in the first place. Indeed, one wonders how it got started. I have a theory about that, too. I do not know if GM John Nunn was the first to tell readers, "If you have two or more undefended pieces, then a fork or double attack may be in the offing", but he is widely read, and it strikes me as possible that others may have seen such comments and given in to the temptation to simplify such advice and turn it into the protection idea.

BigBroChess

@kindaspongy I'm actually confused by what you mean. Can you like show me a real game example? Thanks! PS You are actually not harsh at all.

sndeww

@BigBroChess he means you shouldn’t worry about protecting all your pieces, you just need to take the risk and be alert for opposing tactics.

BigBroChess

@Snejvesda thx!

kindaspongey
BigBroChess wrote:

... Can you like show me a real game example? ...

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1233404

sndeww

@kindaspongey, that’s not Italian game, it is Philidor. Also c3 is a better move than d4 ( engine )

sndeww

And for Italian game, white generally wants to play for the center with (d4) or c3...and then d4. However drawback may be late development.

2Nf31-0

 

kindaspongey
Snejvesda wrote:

@kindaspongey, that’s not Italian game, it is Philidor. Also c3 is a better move than d4 ( engine )

I didn't think that BigBroChess necessarily wanted an Italian game as an illustration of what I had been saying, about 12 hours ago. Also, I think that carbon-based life forms have been known to choose 3 d4 after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6.

kindaspongey

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1132699

sndeww
kindaspongey wrote:
Snejvesda wrote:

@kindaspongey, that’s not Italian game, it is Philidor. Also c3 is a better move than d4 ( engine )

I didn't think that BigBroChess necessarily wanted an Italian game as an illustration of what I had been saying, about 12 hours ago. Also, I think that carbon-based life forms have been known to choose 3 d4 after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6.

I play c3. It works, since I’ve won all games against Philidor with that move. And I was just pointing out about the Italian game thing.

sndeww


Here’s an Evans gambit one, since @kindaspongey has covered the Møller Attack .

Also I had black made a couple mistakes that look juicy but actually aren’t, just one of the many traps in the gambit.