Really who care?
Who has he really played that was dominate?
Rank? His Rank? What great games has been in that would go into the chess hall of fame? When i look at these so called great players! How many times have you ever seen them checkmate a player or it was about to be Mate !
Are you high?
"Seems like Carlsen in the beginning of one right now."
Surely, you can see the entertainment value in that. I don't know the guy from Adam and personal meltdowns are way more fun to watch than another boring chess game.
I'm looking forward to the pictures of Carlsen (led astray by the model lifestyle), crashing out of fetish clubs wearing lipstick and heels.
Chess has a positive image amongst the people who actually play it; it would be ludicrous to suggest its image is wholly positive outside of its devotees.
"Fischer wouldn't have done something like pose on a runway." Yeah, he would never do anything as bad as that! Best stick to writing about killing Jews and suchforth...
People should act how the hell they want to act, as long as they don't commit any gruesome acts against other persons or animals.
Geh, the morality of some people, get over yourself.
To further add to Tricklev's point; chess is anybody's game, and needn't be limited to an irrelevantly defined sub-set of people like "gentlemen" and "gentlewomen."
"Some people say people should act however they want until *their* concept of morality is broken. What would you say if a pedophile were to say "the morality of some people, get over yourself?""
"People should act how the hell they want to act, as long as they don't commit any gruesome acts against other persons or animals."
And honestly, I really doubt Carlsen cares if he's lost your respect, because of your stringent definitions of how a chess player should act.
Carlsen isn't doing any physical harm to you. It's an entirely different situation.
The standards are much more flexible than your ideas of "correct" behaviour. Anyway, I only referred to Tricklev's earlier post to say that a counter-argument has already been advanced. I'm not actually suggesting that be an imperative for everyone to live by, because it is clearly too simplistic.
Like you say. Everyone has different standards. I quite like the direction that he is going and you don't. I guess we'll have to give it some time and see what happens :)
Attack is rather dramatic a term, is it not? I'm merely suggesting you should try to be less exclusive in defining the participants of a game that has many centuries of play behind it! And that mostly because you can't possibly control such variables.
But fine, if you like, I'll say that adhering to a code that prizes liberty up to the point of threatening others is superior than your idea of maintaining an ideal image. Ideals may differ greatly from person to person, so it seems sensible to me to avoid restricting behaviour as much as possible, only when it can be reasonably said to harm others. Your way is too messy, frankly.
Marilyn Magnus does not look happy:
You know what's ironic? Top female players have been making extra money by modelling for decades (Alexandra Kosteniuk is the perfect example). So how is male modelling "shameful", "debasing", "beneath him", or "sad for chess"?
It's always been acceptable for women to be sexy -- but if a man wants to be sexy it somehow ruins his image. Obviously sexist against men tsk tsk.
Oh, baloney! It would be equally shameful for a woman of Carlsen's talent to be wasting her time modeling.
Just being goofy.
Talent or not he's still a person with other interests. There's nothing vulgar about modeling, just the stigma that the people trying so hard to look like mannequins have the brains to match.
Not vulgar. It's just not befitting a world championship candidate. He's a public person now. As a public person whose actions reflect on the game itself, he should be more responsible with his image. Sure, he's a 19 year old kid, and as a kid it's difficult to really grasp the consequences of your public actions. So he deserves some slack. But the truth is that what he is doing is shameful. Can you imagine Tal or Fischer walking back and forth on a runway? I know that I can't. As crazy as Fischer was, he didn't embarrass the chess world like that.
It's hard to believe how condescending you are being to the modeling profession. There is not way that Carlson being a model could "embarrass" the chess world...
I can't believe how much credit you are giving to modeling. You put clothes on, walk around in a certain way and pose as you are asked to. It's not a profession. It's not even work.
I think it would be work. At least for me. I would much rather do manual labor than have somebody put makeup on me and tell me how to stand and stand under a bunch of lights while some dude takes photos of me. I think it would suck big time, and it would definitely be classified under that most loathesome of four letter words.
You called it a gentlemen/women's game; I took that as a definition of the players involved. And I gave you an explanation as to why I think my standards function better than yours. You're free to disagree.
I don't equate work with distasteful tasks. I happen to love what I do at work but it's still work. Work is "exertion or effort directed to produce or accomplish something; labor; toil". Getting dressed isn't work. It's what you do in the morning as part of getting ready for work.
You haven't spent much time running a shovel, have you?
Furthermore, I can do without the dictionary definitions. I'm sitting in front of a computer, you know? If I needed a dictionary definition, I could find it.
If one is getting paid to sweat, one is working. I'm sure models sweat.
Laying on the beach in the sun? You'd have to pay me to do that, so it would be work. I didn't say sweat=work. I said sweat+pay=work. That is not a redefinition. It's older than the industrial revolution.
Back in the day, a roman soldier could legally require anyone to carry his pack for a mile. Jesus suggested you carry it a second mile as a sacrifice, gift, or to have a greater understanding of the others lot.
Have you walked a mile in a model's shoes?
You called it a gentlemen/women's game; I took that as a definition of the players involved. And I gave you an explanation as to why I think my standards function better than yours. You're free to disagree.
I don't see the standard by which you have judged your morality to be superior to mine. I only see a naked assertion.
"Ideals may differ greatly from person to person, so it seems sensible to me to avoid restricting behaviour as much as possible, only when it can be reasonably said to harm others. Your way is too messy, frankly."
S'what I said. If you think it doesn't answer the question, go ahead and say so.
I said sweat+pay=work.
na, you've got housework and homework which aren't paid.
On the modeling is not work idea. I guess that modeling might be one of the easier jobs. However, I've never done a shoot and don't know what it involves. And maybe models have to work to keep their look in order. I don't think it would be fair to say that it is not work at all though.
@bsrasmus
' Can you imagine Tal or Fischer walking back and forth on a runway? I know that I can't. As crazy as Fischer was, he didn't embarrass the chess world like that.'
You hold up Fischer and Tal as examples of good chess role models and that they were good for the game, whereas, you think this move by Carlsen is shameful and bad for the game.
from Wiki (where else?)
'Tal was a smoker and heavy drinker. He was also briefly addicted to morphine.'
..and Fischer, well take your pick of stuff :)
I think that modeling with Liv Tyler promotes chess and attacks the negative sterotype associated with the game. It is something that younger people may respond to.
What I can't understand is why you think it will have a negative effect on chess.
Also, you say that it is a waste of talent. Some people would argue that Carlsen is obviously a very capable person and that he is wasting his talents playing chess, which is only a game.