What is there left to learn after 2100?

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Robert_New_Alekhine

I'm playing at a more or less 2000 rating in tournaments, and my coach tells me that my understanding is 2100+. My question is, what is there left to learn after this?

I've already read all of Silman's books, Jacob Aagard's, and all the books that are constantly being recommended for sub 1800 players. 

So what is there to learn now? What books are for a level of 2100?

ThrillerFan
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

WRONG!

You need to get away from the beginner writers (Silman, Alburt, Seiriwan) and read the more advanced stuff.

 

Many of the books by Quality Chess like:

  • The Grandmaster Preparation Series
  • Advanced Chess Tactics
  • Chess Lessons
  • Mating the Castled King

And many of the middlegame books by New In Chess like:

  • Liquidation on the Chessboard

Along with DEEPLY annotated games of MODERN GMs.  Ones like Garry Kasparov on Garry Kasparov.

Also, subscribing to things like Informant or the Chess Evolution Weekly Newsletter (CEWN).

 

Also, Opening books beyond the Starting Out or Move by Move series.

 

Also, when it comes to studying openings, look for books that are "OBJECTIVE", like the Chess Developments Series (i.e. Chess Developments: Sicilian Najdorf 6.Bg5).  This way, you are looking at various lines from an objective standpoint and not being driven down a narrow path from one side only.  Repertoire books say "This is what we are going to play, and I'll cover all of White's alternatives".

Instead, a book like the one mentioned above, if you study it, Black makes up his own mind whether to play 6...Nbd7, the Polugaevsky, the Classical, the Poisoned Pawn, the Delayed Poisoned Pawn, etc, rather than having someone else make that decision for you.  This way, you play what you are comfortable with, not whatever one GM says to play.

Robert_New_Alekhine
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

The beauty of the game is enjoyed by most people except by trolls like you.

Robert_New_Alekhine
ThrillerFan wrote:
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

WRONG!

You need to get away from the beginner writers (Silman, Alburt, Seiriwan) and read the more advanced stuff.

 

Many of the books by Quality Chess like:

The Grandmaster Preparation Series Advanced Chess Tactics Chess Lessons Mating the Castled King

And many of the middlegame books by New In Chess like:

Liquidation on the Chessboard

Along with DEEPLY annotated games of MODERN GMs.  Ones like Garry Kasparov on Garry Kasparov.

Also, subscribing to things like Informant or the Chess Evolution Weekly Newsletter (CEWN).

 

Also, Opening books beyond the Starting Out or Move by Move series.

 

Also, when it comes to studying openings, look for books that are "OBJECTIVE", like the Chess Developments Series (i.e. Chess Developments: Sicilian Najdorf 6.Bg5).  This way, you are looking at various lines from an objective standpoint and not being driven down a narrow path from one side only.  Repertoire books say "This is what we are going to play, and I'll cover all of White's alternatives".

Instead, a book like the one mentioned above, if you study it, Black makes up his own mind whether to play 6...Nbd7, the Polugaevsky, the Classical, the Poisoned Pawn, the Delayed Poisoned Pawn, etc, rather than having someone else make that decision for you.  This way, you play what you are comfortable with, not whatever one GM says to play.

Thank you ThrillerFan for the comment!

As I said in my first post I have already read the Jacob Aagard series, and some of the other books as well, but thanks for the recommendations! I was already considering subscribing to Informant, will do!

Thanks once again!

FMCouch

You have a lot to learn! (and me, and everybody).

I think that what ThrillerFan says is correct, but also you need to satisfy your needs. For that you need to know your weaknesses.

ChessBrilliancy38
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

Continue deluding yourself. It seems as if you're completely ignoring the importance of the middlegame and endgame. Chess is much more than memorization. Otherwise, anyone who has a good memory can memorize opening lines and become a grandmaster. Becoming good at chess requires dedication and practice. Chess is very interesting and fun. It's also a very challenging game. That's why many people enjoy chess. What strikes me is that some people don't understand this.

ThrillerFan
Robert0905 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

WRONG!

You need to get away from the beginner writers (Silman, Alburt, Seiriwan) and read the more advanced stuff.

 

Many of the books by Quality Chess like:

The Grandmaster Preparation Series Advanced Chess Tactics Chess Lessons Mating the Castled King

And many of the middlegame books by New In Chess like:

Liquidation on the Chessboard

Along with DEEPLY annotated games of MODERN GMs.  Ones like Garry Kasparov on Garry Kasparov.

Also, subscribing to things like Informant or the Chess Evolution Weekly Newsletter (CEWN).

 

Also, Opening books beyond the Starting Out or Move by Move series.

 

Also, when it comes to studying openings, look for books that are "OBJECTIVE", like the Chess Developments Series (i.e. Chess Developments: Sicilian Najdorf 6.Bg5).  This way, you are looking at various lines from an objective standpoint and not being driven down a narrow path from one side only.  Repertoire books say "This is what we are going to play, and I'll cover all of White's alternatives".

Instead, a book like the one mentioned above, if you study it, Black makes up his own mind whether to play 6...Nbd7, the Polugaevsky, the Classical, the Poisoned Pawn, the Delayed Poisoned Pawn, etc, rather than having someone else make that decision for you.  This way, you play what you are comfortable with, not whatever one GM says to play.

Thank you ThrillerFan for the comment!

As I said in my first post I have already read the Jacob Aagard series, and some of the other books as well, but thanks for the recommendations! I was already considering subscribing to Informant, will do!

Thanks once again!

Oh, did you mean the Grandmaster Preparation series?  Sorry, I thought you meant you read the Excel at Chess series, which is more advanced than Lev Alburt, but not as advanced as the Grandmaster Preparation series.  In the latter, the last book hasn't been published yet.  I've read 3 of them, and currently reading Endgame Play (still have to read Attack And Defense).  Basically they said read Calcuation first, Positional Play second, and after that, order doesn't matter.

Do be forewarned though that if you read some of the middlegame books by Quality Chess, like The Grandmaster Battle Manual (which I'm about 40% thru), or Advanced Chess Tactics (on my "to read" list), one game will take you a good 3 hours to studay, so if you are looking at right before bedtime, figuring 20 minutes, go for a problems book.

For example, I am currently on chapter 4 of The Grandmaster Battle Manual.  I think the first chapter was something like 40 pages long, covering literally 2 games!

 

In Chess Lessons, the 6 problems at the end of some of the chapters took a good 2 hours to complete.

 

The other critical thing is to play in tournament over the board with long time controls (Game in 60 minutes or Game in 90 minutes is not long - time controls more like 40/120, SD/30 or 40/90, SD/30, Inc/30).

Robert_New_Alekhine
FMCouch wrote:

You have a lot to learn! (and me, and everybody).

I think that what ThrillerFan says is correct, but also you need to satisfy your needs. For that you need to know your weaknesses.

I'm not sure about posting my weaknesses here in the forum, but I think my weaknesses are endgames and lack of patience (I don't think things through that much. I completely lack a though process. Yes, I know the correct though process, but I just don't do it sometimes)

Robert_New_Alekhine
ChessBrilliancy38 wrote:
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

Continue deluding yourself. It's seems as if you're completely ignoring the importance of the middlegame and endgame. Chess is much more than memorization .Otherwise, anyone who has a good memory can memorize opening lines and become a grandmaster. Becoming good at chess requires dedication and practice. Chess is very interesting and fun. It's also a very challenging game. That's why many people enjoy chess. What strikes me is that some people don't understand this.

That guy won't take a hint and leave. Neither will chess.com about muting him.

Robert_New_Alekhine
ThrillerFan wrote:
Robert0905 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
GreedyPawnEater wrote:

as soon as you reach 2100 and keep studying chess you are just wasting your time. there is nothing to learn really except memorizing opening lines up to move 30 like in the sicilian. what strikes me is that some people enjoy  it.

WRONG!

You need to get away from the beginner writers (Silman, Alburt, Seiriwan) and read the more advanced stuff.

 

Many of the books by Quality Chess like:

The Grandmaster Preparation Series Advanced Chess Tactics Chess Lessons Mating the Castled King

And many of the middlegame books by New In Chess like:

Liquidation on the Chessboard

Along with DEEPLY annotated games of MODERN GMs.  Ones like Garry Kasparov on Garry Kasparov.

Also, subscribing to things like Informant or the Chess Evolution Weekly Newsletter (CEWN).

 

Also, Opening books beyond the Starting Out or Move by Move series.

 

Also, when it comes to studying openings, look for books that are "OBJECTIVE", like the Chess Developments Series (i.e. Chess Developments: Sicilian Najdorf 6.Bg5).  This way, you are looking at various lines from an objective standpoint and not being driven down a narrow path from one side only.  Repertoire books say "This is what we are going to play, and I'll cover all of White's alternatives".

Instead, a book like the one mentioned above, if you study it, Black makes up his own mind whether to play 6...Nbd7, the Polugaevsky, the Classical, the Poisoned Pawn, the Delayed Poisoned Pawn, etc, rather than having someone else make that decision for you.  This way, you play what you are comfortable with, not whatever one GM says to play.

Thank you ThrillerFan for the comment!

As I said in my first post I have already read the Jacob Aagard series, and some of the other books as well, but thanks for the recommendations! I was already considering subscribing to Informant, will do!

Thanks once again!

Oh, did you mean the Grandmaster Preparation series?  Sorry, I thought you meant you read the Excel at Chess series, which is more advanced than Lev Alburt, but not as advanced as the Grandmaster Preparation series.  In the latter, the last book hasn't been published yet.  I've read 3 of them, and currently reading Endgame Play (still have to read Attack And Defense).  Basically they said read Calcuation first, Positional Play second, and after that, order doesn't matter.

Do be forewarned though that if you read some of the middlegame books by Quality Chess, like The Grandmaster Battle Manual (which I'm about 40% thru), or Advanced Chess Tactics (on my "to read" list), one game will take you a good 3 hours to studay, so if you are looking at right before bedtime, figuring 20 minutes, go for a problems book.

For example, I am currently on chapter 4 of The Grandmaster Battle Manual.  I think the first chapter was something like 40 pages long, covering literally 2 games!

 

In Chess Lessons, the 6 problems at the end of some of the chapters took a good 2 hours to complete.

 

The other critical thing is to play in tournament over the board with long time controls (Game in 60 minutes or Game in 90 minutes is not long - time controls more like 40/120, SD/30 or 40/90, SD/30, Inc/30).

Thanks for the advice! I will certainly consider that.

Regarding longer time controls, I play big tournaments with long time controls about once every two months. In the meantime, I play in my local club approximately once every two weeks, with a time control of G/60; d5. I'm thinking I should stop playing short time controls that much, especially blitz and bullet.  Not going well yet, but I've recently resolved myself to play a max of two games of bullet and one game of blitz per week.

CMGuess
[COMMENT DELETED]
CMGuess

I'm pretty sure that memorization plays a huge part in chess especially around the 2700 level. I've read multiple interviews by 2700+ players and they can recall thousands of games almost perfectly and seem to know every opening, endgame, and chess theory thoroughly. Of course memorization isn't everything, but at that level it can make or break the ability to win. 

Bobby Fischer himself mentioned in an interview that the difference between the great players from the past and our contemporary masters is the theory. He also mentioned that chess players have to beat their heads against it like a brick wall if they want to be the best, which is probably why he went insane...

ChessBrilliancy38
CMGuess wrote:

I'm pretty sure that memorization plays a huge part in chess especially around the 2700 level. I've read multiple interviews by 2700+ players and they can recall thousands of games almost perfectly and seem to know every opening, endgame, and chess theory thoroughly. Of course memorization isn't everything, but at that level it can make or break the ability to win. 

Bobby Fischer himself mentioned in an interview that the difference between the great players from the past and our contemporary masters is the theory. He also mentioned that chess players have to beat their heads against it like a brick wall if they want to be the best, which is probably why he went insane...

Yes, memorization is important, but it isn't everything. Many people believe that chess is ONLY memorization. That's simply wrong.

ozzie_c_cobblepot

Dvoretsky

FMCouch
Robert0905 escribió:
FMCouch wrote:

You have a lot to learn! (and me, and everybody).

I think that what ThrillerFan says is correct, but also you need to satisfy your needs. For that you need to know your weaknesses.

I'm not sure about posting my weaknesses here in the forum, but I think my weaknesses are endgames and lack of patience (I don't think things through that much. I completely lack a though process. Yes, I know the correct though process, but I just don't do it sometimes)

 You don't need to post your weaknesses if you don't want, I was just saying that when your level grews, then the training is more and more specific, so you need to know your needs to learn.

ThrillerFan has already post some good recommendations in endgames, so you can follow him.

An about the though process, I should say that there is no "correct" one. Some works for some players, and others for another ones. You should follow what works for you.

FMCouch
CMGuess escribió:

I'm pretty sure that memorization plays a huge part in chess especially around the 2700 level. I've read multiple interviews by 2700+ players and they can recall thousands of games almost perfectly and seem to know every opening, endgame, and chess theory thoroughly. Of course memorization isn't everything, but at that level it can make or break the ability to win. 

 Ok, they can "recall thousands of games almost perfectly", but this is because they have memorize them? I don't think so. They hadn't spend therir chilhood seeing one game over and over until they can recall it perfectly.

And also is important that we don't have a 2700 level (not even a 2500 level), so we should learn in a different way.

Robert_New_Alekhine
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Dvoretsky

Have his Endgame manual and his Analytical manual. Having readen the Analytical manual yet though,

Robert_New_Alekhine
pfren wrote:

Your trainer is supposed to set a study program tailored for your needs.

It's impossible to suggest anything concrete without knowing many details about you, and your play.

There is only one thing for sure: You still have a hell of a lot to learn, if you wish to improve.

My trainer does. I'm just looking for something even more

Pai_Mei
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Dvoretsky

+1

 

Also, I think you're dead on (OP) about thought process. This is something I also have - an unstructured thought process. I waste a lot of time and sometimes blunder because of it. I'm also like that in daily life - distracted. I open the refrigerator door and forget what I was going to get. I think it's one of the hardest things to really improve on.

MyNameIsAdis

Your bullet and blitz ratings are quite impressive, but you still suck at standard and correspodence. You are obviously "fast thinker" opposite to me but you suck in REAL long-timed chess yet. Why ?