whats the point of database?

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Avatar of frankyyy27

Why not just start games at set points..say mv 10..or mv 15...seeing as ur saying the art of knowing ur openings is d 1e funct why waste time playing them mvs...if u say its for learning why not play a computer?

Avatar of GMPatzer

Knowing openings is a not a waste of time since there are many transposition that could occur to reach said final opening position.

otherwise you could be lost before reaching your opening position

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

The point of a database is to find games for you to study and learn from.  Say, you want to learn the c4 + e4 pawn wedge against a d6 + e6 structure and its various strategies and plans, you can input said pawn structures into the search position or certain Paulsen/Scveningen/Najdorf/Accelerated Dragon ECO codes to learn plans for the side you're studying from.  Or, if you're studying the games of a certain player just search for this player.  So just enter Alekhine into the database, check ignore colors, and only victories and maybe some draws if you want then you have a collection to copy and paste from.  I use Big Database 2013 but there are others. 

Avatar of rooperi

Actually, loooong ago, it did work like that.

Play started from fixed positions (called Tabia(???), or something llike that)

Somebody with Hooper and Wylde can look it up, mine's disintegrated ages ago.

Avatar of AnastasiaStyles
frankyyy27 wrote:

Why not just start games at set points..say mv 10..or mv 15...

That's an option.

frankyyy27 wrote:

seeing as ur saying the art of knowing ur openings is d 1e funct

What?

 

frankyyy27 wrote:

why waste time playing them mvs...

Because (sometimes fortunately, and sometimes unfortunately) my opponent has free will and can chose his own moves. That's how chess is played. We take turns deciding what move to make with our pieces (be it with or without access to historical data on how other games played with those moves have gone previously).

frankyyy27 wrote:

if u say its for learning why not play a computer?

Because computers don't make human decisions, for a start. Of course, they may be a good part of a training regimen, all the same.

Avatar of rooperi
orangeishblue wrote:
frankyyy27 wrote:

Why not just start games at set points..say mv 10..or mv 15...seeing as ur saying the art of knowing ur openings is d 1e funct why waste time playing them mvs...if u say its for learning why not play a computer?

That is essentially what happens in online chess. In the real world of chess if you out 10 chessplayers together, 9 of them  would argue with you about the color of crap. One player would insist that Crap would have to be capitalized, while two would insist you are color blind, four would just call you stupid, 3 players would want a dictionary definition, 2 others would quote famous philosophers that prove crap doesn't exist. Still another would say pass the joint. Finally, you will have the math guy that will write out a formula to prove what dimension the crap exists within. Yet you want chess players to actually agree on the opening of a chess game. I don't think that is going to happen. Take this advice from someone that has been called stupid, simple, immature, highschool dropout, ignorant, dumbass, cretin, intolerant, bigoted and my all time favorite "my ass looks fat. All by chessplayers that are asumed to have brains bigger than a chimps. Although I would be hard pressed to prove what they actually accomplish with the extra 600cc God or evolution gave them.

I think you need a drink :)

Avatar of Irinasdaddy
DavidStyles wrote:

Because computers don't make human decisions, for a start. Of course, they may be a good part of a training regimen, all the same.

I don't think anyone can truly grow as a chess player until they realize how true this statement is.  I get such joy out of analyzing a game afterwards, seeing what move the computer makes, what it then figures its advantage is, and then putting in my own move and either seeing the same or a higher advantage.  Computers always seem to play for material, and never seem to play to allow the opponent to screw up.  

One recent game a friend of mine tried a knight sac, which I could tell was a bad idea and destined to not work.  I stormed his queenside with my pawns (sacrificing an exchange, he had castled long) and my attack crushed him.  Analyzing afterwards, the computer suggested I make a rook move I never even contemplated, instead of the a5 shove I made.  

Avatar of Shakaali
rooperi wrote:

Actually, loooong ago, it did work like that.

Play started from fixed positions (called Tabia(???), or something llike that)

Somebody with Hooper and Wylde can look it up, mine's disintegrated ages ago.

Perhaps tabbiyya in Shatranj - altough my understanding is that the game didn't actually start from these position but players were trying to setup them during the opening.

Avatar of Shakaali

Database is basically just a collection of games (typically of varying quality). What you choose to do with it is your choice. Before we had books like informator, tournament books, game collections of famous masters etc. Of course databases allow for easy acces to huge number of games and typically are provided with some tools for statistical analysis but still you need skill to extract correct information from them.

And no, even if you play long theoretical variation (you don't even need DB for that), it's not quite the same as starting the game from some position 15 moves in as typically players are choosing from variety of such lines some of which may be better than others and also trying to obtain position that their style and would be unpleasant for their particular opponent. This varies from game to game. You may perhaps view the opening as kind of negotiations during which the conditions for the future fight are agreed. Obviously both sides do their utmost to ensure best possible deal so it often would not be so easy for the players to agree without actually playing the moves on the board.