Magnus Carlsen, of course.
Who is the best chess player in the world?
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Dec 30, 2012
0
#63
The point is that, at least according to Murray, when shatranj migrated to Europe, mainly on the Iberian Peninsula, it gradually took the name ajedrez by the Spanish and xandrez by the Portuguese - both terms meaning shatranj, not chess. The meaning of the terms eventually evolved to mean chess. Shantanj wasn't called chess. The European game that evolved from the rudimentary rules of shatranj was called chess (or the local eqivalant, derived from Latin, not Arabic), indicating it was so different to require a different name. European chess without a doubt developed directly from shatranj and the development was incremental, differing locally. But what was called chess, even in its earliest forms, differed from shatranj. As chess developed, shatranj was still popular, even into the 16th century (after modern chess developed).
zborg wrote:
@Stevie65. With a meteoric rise through the ranks. The People's Champion.
Is that a vote Z? Hey i could win this! Oh yes,just imagine...There could be a bronze statue of me in Calafornia,right outside the doors of the chess.com offices.. Kohai and all the staff could gaze upon it in awe..Awesome! And they could use my avatar as there logo,awesomer!
Batgirl..out of interest is there a translation or meaning derived from the Latin..Chess
Dec 30, 2012
0
#66
Hmmmm I can see why some people think Carlsen is the best but I think that if we are honest everyone knows Stevie65 has started to dominate the chess world.
Dec 30, 2012
0
#67
Hard to say. Popular opinion suggests Carlsen. On the other hand it maybe someone you and I have never heard of in our lifes. Recall the story of Mir Sultan Khan ? Someone that plays for sheer pleasure and has no interest in all in Titles, championships etc.
Batgirl:
The point is that, at least according to Murray, when shatranj migrated to Europe, mainly on the Iberian Peninsula, it gradually took the name ajedrez by the Spanish and xandrez by the Portuguese - both terms meaning shatranj, not chess.
Ajedrez is not only the Spanish word for shatranj, but also the Spanish word for our modern chess. The same is true for the Portuguese xadrez, the Fench échecs, or the English chess (letting aside slight modifications in spelling).
The meaning of the terms eventually evolved to mean chess.
Are you using the word chess here to refer to our modern game only, as distinct from the medieval game?
Shantanj wasn't called chess.
So how was shatranj called then? The word shatranj was introduced by 19th century scholars into English usage, it wasn't called chess either (as you imply), so there must have been a different word. What was it?
The European game that evolved from the rudimentary rules of shatranj was called chess (or the local eqivalant, derived from Latin, not Arabic), indicating it was so different to require a different name.
The game that evolved was called chess just like the (not-so) rudimentary shatranj. The game we (today) are calling shatranj has never been called shatranj by medieval Europeans. It has always been called ajedrez, xadrez, échecs, chess, &c.
European chess without a doubt developed directly from shatranj and the development was incremental, differing locally.
Agreed.
But what was called chess, even in its earliest forms, differed from shatranj.
No, it didn't. The game we are calling chess today differs from the game we are calling shatranj today. But at all times, the Arabs called the game shatranj, the Spanish called it ajedrez, the English called it chess, the same name was used at all times for all development stages of the game.
As chess developed, shatranj was still popular, even into the 16th century (after modern chess developed).
True, and because there was no new name for the modified game, Lucena called it (ajedrez) de la Dama, and the Italians called it (scachi) alla rabiosa. It was still chess, and it wasn't the first variant thereof.
To sum it up: the Arabs introduced chess into Europe. This game, called shatranj by the Arabs, was played in Europe for 300 years with slight modifications only. In late 15th century, the movements of Bishop and Queen were modified. Chess continued to be played, further rule modifications were made, and it is still being played today.
Dec 30, 2012
0
#69
We shouldn't confuse the name with the game. The name diverged, so we basically have two names, both derived from Persian. Some European languages (notably Spain and Portugal where Arab influence was strongest) keeping a name derived from the Perisan name for the game itself, while others (in some cases via Latin) changed to a name also derived from Persian but this time from the habit of saying 'shah' when attacking the king. (Or perhaps "Sheikh"). Russian is interesting where the name transliterates as something like Shak Maty.
The game, on the other hand, does seem to have evolved in a Darwinian sort of a way from a single ancestor and I can find no evidence that it evolved differently in those cultures where the name of the game came from "shah" compared to those where it was named after "shatranj".
So what I'm saying is that our game of chess seems to be a direct descendent of shatranj, but our name "chess" is derived from a different Persian word. I'm confident on the 2nd part (I'm a linguist) but I admit I have no first-hand knowledge of the first part.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/games.htm
It seems the Egyptians were playing strategic games on checkered boards long before.I mean thousands of years before.
I suppose that claim could be said of any less than recorded history.So you believe that the author in the said link is the only Author/Archeologist that has claimed this discovery of an egyptian game and he painted the knowledge aswell,found games of that nature in tombs.He and others just invented these discoveries..."SENET" is one of them..It's a pretty elaborate hoax Estragon.
The most distinguishing feature of chess is pieces of different power (and shape). In the link you posted, the wall painting shows different shapes for the pieces of both sides, but the pieces of each player look the same. So there is no convincing link to chess, or a possible precursor.
Board games are no unusual feature of any civilisation and consequently, the oldest civilisations can boast of the oldest board games.
But chess belongs to India.
Dec 30, 2012
0
#73
Stevie, it could be that the egyptians were doing all of that, but indians were doing it first.
I wasn't disputing the heritage of chess,merely pointing out that strategic board games on checkered surfaces go further back than you and Batgirl were giving credit for.As the foundation of your arguement was development or evolution of such games, i thought it might be prudent to point out that Egypt was civilised well before the said countries you both pointed out..So why not use Egypt as a starting point?
What is this obsession with Carlsen? He's like the Justin Bieber of chess...
Vote: Anand (He may not play the best chess in the world, but the ability to win the title of "World Champion" must be worth something.)
Zombie54321 wrote:
Stevie, it could be that the egyptians were doing all of that, but indians were doing it first.
Good point Zombie..I don't know enough to indulge..sounds interesting,Which indians the red or south Americans or did you mean the Asians? Tell me more!
ChessisGood wrote:
What is this obsession with Carlsen? He's like the Justin Bieber of chess...
+1
Carlsen. He beat Aronian twice and Radjabov once in classical games this year and won the last conclusive classical game against Kramnik at Tata Steel 2011. He's 50 higher rated than any other player. I don't see what's really to debate.