Why am I losing all the sudden?

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llama47
shaniac wrote:

 

Why am I losing all the sudden?

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shaniac
callmeqt wrote:
shaniac wrote:

Looking for an explanation. I opened a chess.com account in 2008. I didn't know a single opening or that they even had names or there were books to read, etc, I just knew which pieces moved where. The only name I'd ever heard was Bobby Fischer and that was because of the movie. Within a few months of here and there casual play I got up to 1300+ on pure instinct (check my profile and you'll see). Then I stopped for a long time.
Well Covid and the Queen's Gambit renewed my appreciation and gave me time to start fiddling around again. Within a week I had lost so much I was down to 800. Then I started watching a bunch of videos and tutorials and doing puzzles, but the next week I dropped to 600...and am now struggling to break above 500. Granted I'm playing too much and playing tired and distracted sometimes, but I just got beat by a <400 player!

I'll admit, I'm perplexed. I see some really weird moves played at this level. Did I lose all my marbles, has the influx of popularity just surpassed me?

The question I haven't yet seen answered here is how you're losing now to low level players when you could beat 1300's with no prep. The answer to that is likely that you started at 1200 and (pardon me) got lucky. Someone who has never played will not ever beat a true 1300. Your level of play was probably not as high as your opponents made it seem. Now, if you had the intuition to beat those players, no matter the circumstance, then with study you can surely become a great player, but I think what is important to realize here is that you have work to do.

It's possible, I have no idea what I started at back then but I played for a full year from 2008-2009 to get to 1300+. But I actually agree with you...I don't know how or why...which is why I made this thread! What do they start new players out at?

Let me clarify, I knew how to play since I was a kid (just never did much) and had been playing with the 11 yr old next door once a week...but I didn't know any technical chess.

shaniac

But starting at 1200 and getting lucky is a valid explanation that I wouldn't argue with.

SteveJobsButForReal

This same thing happened to me. Two years ago, I first got my chess.com account, played a few games and got rating of around 950. I didn't know anything about chess. I came back a little over two weeks ago and started to take chess seriously. Multiple hours a day, I'll do puzzles, play long games, watch games, watch lessons, run through drills, yet my rating has fallen to around 650.

My assumption is this:

Chess.com can't properly rate you if you've only played a few games. It appears that by default it'll rate people with moderately high numbers (>1000). It looks like you played around 14 rapid games in 2008 and that was it. There isn't really enough there to accurately gage your skill and that's why your rating was so far off despite your actual experience with chess. Now that you're playing more, there is more data about you and the rating you have is more accurate.

It is hard, coming back and actually starting to work hard, only to see your rating plummet. Don't let that stop you. Just make it a goal to get those ratings back, but this time for real!

llama47

Hi guys, I haven't played since 2008.

Which is 13 years.

And now that I've come back I'm "suddenly" losing.

I don't get it. I think it's a big mystery.

WhiteElephant2

Shaniac-

First,  I think one of the most basic principles of chess is whomever controls the center four squares is in better position to win.  In the game you posted, black was much to passive in this regard.

Second, when playing white start with the same opening for a few days at a time, and you will start to get a feel for that particular opens strengths and weaknesses. (moreso when your opponents are better, I'd think).

Third, I would suggest not being worried to "lose" pieces, trading pieces of equal value (you know the values of all the pieces, correct?) is to your advantage if you can force your opponent to double up his pawns.  I prefer decluttering the board, but that's just a personal preference.

Last, the game analysis can help immensely.  You will improve quickly, I think.  Good Luck.

shaniac

I get sarcasm. What I don't get is how I can't get out of the downward spiral. Believe me, if you look at my profile, it's not like I was studying and playing every day back then. I think the starting at 1200, getting lucky...coming back cold and adding tilt explains it. Thank you.

shaniac
WhiteElephant2 wrote:

Shaniac-

First,  I think one of the most basic principles of chess is whomever controls the center four squares is in better position to win.  In the game you posted, black was much to passive in this regard.

Second, when playing white start with the same opening for a few days at a time, and you will start to get a feel for that particular opens strengths and weaknesses. (moreso when your opponents are better, I'd think).

Third, I would suggest not being worried to "lose" pieces, trading pieces of equal value (you know the values of all the pieces, correct?) is to your advantage if you can force your opponent to double up his pawns.  I prefer decluttering the board, but that's just a personal preference.

Last, the game analysis can help immensely.  You will improve quickly, I think.  Good Luck.

Just learned about the analysis. Did know controlling the center was good but not how to do that. And yes, I worry too much about trading because I never knew which pieces were more valuable except queens and kings. So I have been avoiding trades which ended putting me in worse positions. Now I know. 

callmeqt
shaniac wrote:
callmeqt wrote:
shaniac wrote:

Looking for an explanation. I opened a chess.com account in 2008. I didn't know a single opening or that they even had names or there were books to read, etc, I just knew which pieces moved where. The only name I'd ever heard was Bobby Fischer and that was because of the movie. Within a few months of here and there casual play I got up to 1300+ on pure instinct (check my profile and you'll see). Then I stopped for a long time.
Well Covid and the Queen's Gambit renewed my appreciation and gave me time to start fiddling around again. Within a week I had lost so much I was down to 800. Then I started watching a bunch of videos and tutorials and doing puzzles, but the next week I dropped to 600...and am now struggling to break above 500. Granted I'm playing too much and playing tired and distracted sometimes, but I just got beat by a <400 player!

I'll admit, I'm perplexed. I see some really weird moves played at this level. Did I lose all my marbles, has the influx of popularity just surpassed me?

The question I haven't yet seen answered here is how you're losing now to low level players when you could beat 1300's with no prep. The answer to that is likely that you started at 1200 and (pardon me) got lucky. Someone who has never played will not ever beat a true 1300. Your level of play was probably not as high as your opponents made it seem. Now, if you had the intuition to beat those players, no matter the circumstance, then with study you can surely become a great player, but I think what is important to realize here is that you have work to do.

It's possible, I have no idea what I started at back then but I played for a full year from 2008-2009 to get to 1300+. But I actually agree with you...I don't know how or why...which is why I made this thread! What do they start new players out at?

Let me clarify, I knew how to play since I was a kid (just never did much) and had been playing with the 11 yr old next door once a week...but I didn't know any technical chess.

I believe you are started at 1200, so you may have (assuming you played occasionally) climbed your way up there in a rather small number of games.

Batman2508
shaniac wrote:

Thanks, I had to look up what tilt meant...and there's definitely a lot of that. I lose, and have to immediately play again but find myself still thinking about that last game. 

Sorry Batman2508, I'm rated so much lower it won't even let me challenge you haha.

thats ok happy.png 

You're just rusty, keep on playing and one day it will just "click"

I recommend like 3-4 games a day not TOO MUCH

shaniac

Thank you everyone. I've started playing 30 minute games instead of 10 and really thinking about moves a little more efficiently. I've also been analyzing and seeing my mistakes. So I've gone from downward spiral to at least stabelizing if not getting better. One thing I've noticed is that the computer encourages trading significantly more than I naturally feel. Especially early Queen trades when available. Is it really better to trade whenever possible (assuming you are trading more valuable pieces) than to protect? For example, it'll tell me I should have traded a knight for my opponent's rook even though I have a plan for that knight in two or three moves ahead. Should I trust the engine every time, does it see further into the future than I do or is it basing it soley on potential value?

Edit: I just found this wikipedia on the changing values of the pieces depending on stage of the game, so I understand it a little better...but I'm still curious as to the computers recommendation and it's accuracy. Chess piece value

nklristic

Well, rook is worth 5 pawns, knight is 3 pawns and in most cases trading a knight for opponent's rook is a good idea (sometimes this is not the case but most of the time it is).

As for trades in general, it all depends on the situation. You have to see what will happen when "an even trade" occurs. Sometimes an even trade is not so even. happy.png or instance, if you exchange rooks and the opponent gets an active rook on the open file and you are left with a passive rook behind your pawn, that trade is not a good idea. 

If your knight can't be moved from a particular square that is inside enemy's territory and you have the option to exchange it for a bad bishop that is blocked by the opponent's own pawns, you shouldn't trade most of the time. But sometimes you will get something out of the trades. For instance you might isolate the opponent's pawn after an even trade so you might want to do it...

shaniac

So does the computer analysis take the "situation" into consideration when initiating trades early?

nklristic

Yes, but there will be cases when you will not understand why something is good. You can go through the engine line but if the difference is small, you might not understand it. Don't beat yourself to much, that is normal.

Explore and play with engine, try out your ideas and see if those work, and if not why. If many moves were better than yours, if you don't understand the first, try to understand the second. In many cases there will be some easier to understand logic behind a certain move. For instance, sometimes you need to take something and when the opponent retakes, you gain a pawn. That is pretty straightforward, but In some cases engine will find something a little better than that, and only afterwards it will tell you to exchange and take the pawn. So when analyzing you will have to spend some time if you wish to uncover some secrets. happy.png

shaniac

Thank you. 

nklristic

You're welcome. happy.png

callmeqt
shaniac wrote:

Thank you everyone. I've started playing 30 minute games instead of 10 and really thinking about moves a little more efficiently. I've also been analyzing and seeing my mistakes. So I've gone from downward spiral to at least stabelizing if not getting better. One thing I've noticed is that the computer encourages trading significantly more than I naturally feel. Especially early Queen trades when available. Is it really better to trade whenever possible (assuming you are trading more valuable pieces) than to protect? For example, it'll tell me I should have traded a knight for my opponent's rook even though I have a plan for that knight in two or three moves ahead. Should I trust the engine every time, does it see further into the future than I do or is it basing it soley on potential value?

Edit: I just found this wikipedia on the changing values of the pieces depending on stage of the game, so I understand it a little better...but I'm still curious as to the computers recommendation and it's accuracy. Chess piece value

If I were you, I'd do exactly what I did, which has brought me up hundreds of points, and I'm still climbing:

1 - Do rated puzzles whenever possible. The rating gives you a motivation to try to get them right. Puzzles are hands down the best way to learn to win a game, whether that's by winning a piece or a mating net.

2 - If you can't play online, maybe play the computers. You have premium so you can play a number of bots. Keep playing them until you can't beat the one you're on, and then maybe study counters to their opening until you can. I can now beat the 1500 bots, but I'm still working on the higher ones. 

3 - If I were you, I would not play 30 minute games. It's totally fine, but when new or returning to the game you're likely to make blunders that will cost you 30 minutes worth of hard work and good thinking, which I find discouraging. Maybe try something in between 10 and 30. Personally, I am able to manage my time rather well in chess so I have improved lots playing 5 minute blitz's or 10 minute rapids, sometimes with small increments (bonuses). 

4 - Don't force yourself to play. All of these are simple, but this one is the simplest and most important. If you don't feel like playing, just wait until you do, If you don't feel like playing, maybe you'll still want to do puzzles or something of the like.

5 - Finally, set goals. I know it sounds lame but when trying to improve in a game with a rating system it is a great way to fuel your desire for improvement. Sometimes when I don't really feel like playing, I just set a goal maybe 20 points or so higher than where I'm at, and get there. Often I'm having fun by that point so I keep going happy.png

 

These are the things I've come up with to improve, and it's worked tremendously well. One more thing - don't play the computers too much. Computers are great for when your internet connection isn't great or you aren't in the mood to play real people for whatever reason, but they're random and often unrealistic to real players. The computers get quite realistic around the 1500 mark, so I've been told. 

If you take my advice, let me know how it's going. I hope I've helped you in some way.

TuckersTricksYTSUB

Can someone sub to my youtube channel

JackRoach

You should play longer games.

shaniac

longer as in how long? I moved up to 30 minute games and have never gotten close to running out of time. Am I still going too fast?