have a chance..just look like American prodigy Ray Robson..
Why an American will NEVER be a World Champion
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They must have big classrooms in South Korea! Or do they use gymnasiums, or lecture from a helicopter?
How do you control 70 students without the threat of capital punishment? Maybe they employ ex-lion tamers? Or some one with a degree in crowd-control.
cheers
Nov 4, 2008
0
#144
This guy should be on the potential terrorists list....... But he does have a point
cheater_1 wrote:
Since Morphy was the unofficial World champ in the 1860s, all the US could manage was ONE (Bobby Fischer). Currently the Highest ranked American is 16. There has never even been a CONTENDER in the last 100 years except Fischer.
Look at a list of the STRONGEST American GM's (current) and the Strongest up and comers and you'll see that their Chess aptitude doesnt even put them in the same league with ANAND and KRAMNIK, etc etc etc. It's like comparing junior high flag football vs NFL football.
I'm only stating the facts.
I think you might want to re-word that first part. The top-ranked American is 16th (Gata Kamsky @ 2729), but your wording implies that he is 16 years old. (For the record, Gata is in his 30s now).
Also, you're trying to say why there will never be an American world champ. Looking at the current list doesn't do anything there. What matters is what happens to someone if they really want to become a top class player.
Having been in the US for sometime and now back in India, I would agree with most of what the author says. Agreed that the american education system has to be drastically revamped. I have seen even adults not able to do simple math without a calculator! However, I do not entirely agree with the fact that an American can never be a world champion again. Who knows - someone uncorrupt by the 'system' (or some indian or chinese or mexican) could rise through the ranks and cause a break like fischer did!
"TROB33, I think you OVERTHOUGHT this subject a wee bit. In one of my posts I ammended it to say that there is a 99.9% that an American will never be a world champion at chess. ( you obviously made up that statistic, a poor decision to make up such things)I have successfully substantiated that. There are phenomenally smart, dedicated, driven, ambitious, etc etc etc people in the US, however, THE FACTS AND THE HISTORY SHOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY that there are NO phenomenally smart, dedicated, driven, ambitious etc etc etc POTENTIAL WORLD CHESS CHAMPIONS here in the USA. (Ok you say that history say there are no Americans that are dedicated, smart,driven, ambitious etc... Now how the heck does history show the present? Again choose your words carefully. Also facts take generalities of the American people. They don't interview every one nor do they see every chess potential. Maybe that person never enterd a club, organization etc and isnt known. So that can't be proven to a full extent.)You simply cannot argue with the facts. And here I thought people were beginning to see the light. People were starting to acknowledge the STATISTICS (ill admit the sports illustrated stats were not scholarly, but who cares? They're TRUE). People were relating to me and seeing the TRUTH. Eyes were being opened. And now you come along and SPOIL it for everyone. It takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch, they say. The Russians have the LOCK on producing the greatest number of world chess champions and the USA can claim ony ONE WCC since the 1860s. FACT!!!!"
Ok now you say that I am the spoiler but what if that person was you. Can you not accept the possiblility that you may be wrong. I know I can. But you haven't made the impact I need to change my mind yet.
If no one read the quote i made read it. I gave some insight there.
Nov 4, 2008
0
#148
DMENG, good clarification. I meant to say 16th place, not 16 years old.
I ALWAYS admit when I may be wrong. I made a HUGE mistake when I titled this piece, "Why an American will NEVER be a World Champion." If I could change it, it'd say, "Why there is a 99.99% that America will NEVER produce a World Chess Champion." I'm not talking about some 12 year old kid emigrating from Uzbekistan to the US and becoming a US citizen. NO. NOT FAIR. I'm talking about some kid born, raised, and educated in the good old US of A. In fact, I'm SO SURE OF THIS that I would bet that chess will OFFICIALLY be designated a SPORT before the USA can produce a WORLD CHAMP.
So what if the kid isn't born in the US? So what if he's a particular race? Some things just don't make a difference.
If he passes on the street as an American Kid and got his chess here then he's a
US product. What if Caruana gained the WC--born in the US but moved to Europe at age 12 for more chess. American or European product? For Kamsky the answer was that he was *not* a product of American chess but rather Soviet/Russian. So who gets Caurana?
Cheater_1's premise never took into account the unstoppable greatness of Barack Obama. I think President Obama is going to CHANGE all of this. Since Obama is President-elect, Kamsky is going to beat Topolav, then he's going to beat Anand in 2009. They might as well just CONCEDE the matches now.
Just BELIEVE, people. Just BELIEVE.
It's gonna be GREAT to have THE chess championship back in the US. And sorry about that soccer world cup thing, but that's coming here too. CHANGE, people. It's in the air.
Yawn
Acephalic, please review your last statement. I would be more than happy to dissect any argument you give me. I happen to agree with cheater_1 and a lot of people will give me flack for it because he is historically unpopular on this site. So if you recanted that last statement, it would make the argument more logical and less predicated on emotions.
How can someone be so dumb?
Fortunately, the "average" poster in the forum was able to draw a reasonable conclusion from cheater_1's ignorance but we have far too many who are in full agreement.
I have to think that cheater_1 was just toying with us and placed a clump of discolored oatmeal out to see just how many flies he could attract.
It is clear that every country has flies but ...
Based on the #s it might be reasonable to conclude that the average American is more likely to reach for the for the oatmeal but...
If you see a sign that says "BEWARE OF DOG" and Fluffy is a pit-bull - do not try and climb the fence to steal the clumps of oatmeal you see on the lawn.
What do average trends have to do with exceptional individuals?
Don't step in that !!!!!
rich wrote:
Bobby was a champ and he was American amazingly.
really? Bobby who?
Who needs a US world champ?
Indians are much cooler !
Moon...;)!
Nov 8, 2008
0
#157
Wrong logic! America can offer citizenship with great package offer to Anand - and American will be world champ in a day!
Right.
che55 wrote:
Wrong logic! America can offer citizenship with great package offer to Anand - and American will be world champ in a day!
LOL
This reminds me of the Olympics. Most countries send their natives to compete. China sends Chinese born Asain athletes. Japan, Japanese born Asian athletes. Kenya, Kenyan born African athletes, etc, etc. But the USA sends Americans that could be from anywhere in the world, which gives us what some could see as an unfair advantage. I speculate that it's rarely the other way around.
What if the potential American champion is a thin immigrant with a high I.Q.?
There's a chance.