Why are people annoyed by Scandinavian Defence?

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Ethan_Brollier
mkkuhner wrote:

When I learned to play (in the 1980's) it was considered a beginner's mistake.  When I came back to competitive play (around 2014) I was taken aback that it had become a valid opening.  I still have trouble taking it seriously as a result.

I still don't think it's a valid opening honestly. I see the Scandinavian and immediately mentally prepare myself for a Bogo-Indian pawn structure (Nc3 d4 c4) and a queenside attack. If Nc3, Qd8 is the best move but it barely ever gets played, if Bogo-Indian pawn structure, White develops quickly and safely into a d4 structure with no real weaknesses, up a tempo, and there isn't c6/e6 d4 as a pawn break in the midgame. I noticed people explain that White won't be prepared, but if you play both e4 and d4, White will be just as (if not more) prepared than Black, and in a better position.

Problem5826

Because there isnt something easy to learn that deals with all three variations.

Chessflyfisher

Maybe it reminds them of bad experiences with Ikea products.

MatthewFreitag

I think it's because it's very unambitious, but there's no obvious attacking plan for white.

sndeww

When I was around 1100 ish I remember I loathed the Scandinavian. But since then I’ve learned not to play e4, and now I no longer have such gripes with the opening! =)

JOHNCENA2345

people can counter scandin by playing blackmir gambit, which can lead to checkmate if not prepared for the killer moves

DelightfulLiberty

I enjoy it as a beginner opening for black.  First, because it reduces the number of openings I need to study to pretty much just one, somewhat nullifying the advantages of more experienced players getting to choose their favorite opening and taking other novice players out of their comfort zone.  Second, it forces a quick tactical mid-game that I believe helps my development and makes me think.  Third, I enjoy the aesthetic appeal of it being the oldest recorded opening still played and makes me feel part of a long chess tradition.

It is also annoying.  😄

Impractical

The Center Counter Defense (Scandinavian) is annoying:

a. Morphy killed it in 1858, Fischer crushed it in 1970 (openly laughing at it), and Karpov decapitated it again in 1983–people know better

b. It’s like a zombie—you kill, crush, and decapitate it, but it just keeps coming…now that’s annoying! angry

username_0004

CHESS IS P2W

Alchessblitz

(in my opinion)

First (after 1. e4) 1...Nf6, 1...d5, 1...Nc6, 1...b6 are tertiary lines which means that they are "studied" in 3rd position (1st position is 1...c5 and 1...e5, 2nd position is 1...e6, 1...c6 and 1...d6 or 1...g6) so all tertiary lines can annoy White player because "never studied" and don't really know how to treat the position.

a : I believe most human players when they play Scandinavian Defense it's to fall into a Caro-Slavic system and this can be understood in the fact that the Caro-Kahn Defense presents variations that can be upsetting (1.e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Nc3 e6 5. g4 / 1.e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4.c4) and to avoid playing the Panov Attack (it's not a "killer variant" but if it annoys, it annoys) we can transposate into the Scandinav Defense then instead of "learning" two openings it is limited to Scandinavian Defense. 

So 1) e4 d5 2) exd5 Qxd5 3) Nc3 Qa5 4) d4 [for simplicity] c6 

Should not annoy White player who will either play a classic Caro-Slavic system or opt for an o-o-o strategy. 

b : there is a category of players who will play the Scandinav Defense with the idea of an o-o-o strategy without playing x.)... c6

So 1) e4 d5 2) exd5 Qxd5 3) Nc3 Qa5 4) d4 Nf6 5) Bc4 Bg4 6) f3 Bh5 7) Nge2 Nc6 8) Bd2 o-o-o

Can annoy White player because he's playing something pretty wild where Black player "studied" and he didn't "study". 

c : there is a category of players who will play the Scandinav Defense atypically, some kind of surprise weapon with for example I think Carlsen vs Dubov in 15m+10s per move (Youtube video opera euro rapid quarts de finale jour 1 avec MVL et Magnus Carlsen at 2h23m43s for French speakers

So 1) e4 d5 2) exd5 Qxd5 3) Nc3 Qd6 

a bit like playing a quaternary line can annoy because "never studied" and if player White loses the loss can make more impact if he underestimates the variant

d : rather strong or fairly strong bots with no book who play without any real "deep strategy", will rather opt for 2...Nf6 which is a more natural and logical move than taking out his Queen so early by losing tempos with his Queen

So 1) e4 d5 2) exd5 Nf6

Let's say that if human player with Black prefers to play 2)...Qxd5, it is because he is afraid after 2)...Nf6 3) c4 and in short of playing a game with one less pawn but after 3) c4 there is  notably the Icelandic Gambit (3...e6) which is strong enough and in short can annoy 

RakeshMahanti

If you're annoyed by the Scandi, play 2.d4 and make the regret playing d5

AtaChess68
@Allchessblitz: in the line without …c6 (b) it’s better to keep the black light square bishop on its own diagonal after 6) f3.

I prefer …Bd2 but I just check a (weak) engine and that preferred …Bf5.

Falling back to …Bh5 as in your line is not very good. It becomes a target for whites h and g pawns.
jimlargon

‘Cause too many ppl playing it….

ssctk
Impractical wrote:

The Center Counter Defense (Scandinavian) is annoying:

a. Morphy killed it in 1858, Fischer crushed it in 1970 (openly laughing at it), and Karpov decapitated it again in 1983–people know better

b. It’s like a zombie—you kill, crush, and decapitate it, but it just keeps coming…now that’s annoying!

 

Morphy, Fischer and Karpov decapitated almost anything that stood on their way though.

ssctk
Alchessblitz wrote:

tertiary lines can annoy White player because "never studied" and don't really know how to treat the position.

 

I think that's the case, sometimes it even works, such as in Karpov-Miles ( though that was a St. George )

Raphael
omsaibalkawade wrote:

play 2.Nf3 tennison gambit

 

It could easily refuted by e6 transposing the opening to french defence knight variation

 

SamuelAjedrez95

It's because the Scandinavian isn't good but it isn't refutable either.

Also your options against it are fairly limited. Even though you are better, there is really only 1 good setup against it.

It's mostly going to be Nc3, d4, Nf3, Bd2, Bc4 and deviating significantly from this is suboptimal. It's kind of like the Exchange French.

Sea_TurtIe

the scandi is very confrontational and forces white to make a choice, white knows he wont get his italian,scotch, or ruy lopez. Instead he will get a more uncomfortable position compared to black who usually knows what he is doing, but if white knows what hes doing he will be fine and often better  

Sea_TurtIe

but also just learn the scandi for white and you get a good game

 

darkunorthodox88

it evokes a strong visceral reaction in a lot of players. not only does it openly violate an opening principle for an unclear goal, but like the london, it is seen as a low maintainance defense as its forcing nature means you dont need to remember as much. (after 1.d5, only take and nc3 are respectable moves, and after 2....dxe4 3.nxe4 qd5 almost always forces a transposition)

want to go further? play the qd8 variation of the scandinavian. white gets an undeniable big advantage, but it is not refuted.