Why are speedruns even allowed?

Sort:
m_3_h
InsertInterestingNameHere wrote:

So maybe that was a bad analogy, I was just trying to get my point across. No one condones alt accounts unless issued and allowed by chess.com. Go on the forums and ask this and I guarantee you, you will find nothing lmao.

 

Also, the streamers are not trying to lead by example, they are trying to make content??? Just because one person does it, doesn’t mean everyone else can do it. They are allowed, chess.com said they could, so they do. A person of high stature is invited to a party, and only that person. Everyone else doesn’t just get to go to that party because one person is going. They’re going because of their high stature/invitation, and speedrunners are speedrunning because they were given permission. I hope this analogy is better lol 



Just want to add a point here that I paid for my membership so I think it's fair to have an expectation of a fair game when queuing for a game. That a super GM wants to create content with the agreement of chess.com should have no bearing on the initial premise as playing vs the top player in bullet / blitz in the world does not meet the fair game expectation I've got.

Not much of a forum warrior and too much as been said on this topic. I'd love to use streamers and GMs as a way to expand the community and bring chess to a wider audience but not at the expense of fairness to regular players. There are ways to make this an unbelievably cool experience but the current way they're doing it isn't it.

I'm voting with my wallet on this topic and many others like the latency issue. Why can't I pick the region of player I want to play against? Why must I suffer from ping compensation consistently playing someone across the planet? Chess.com grew way too fast for its own good.

Peace. I'm out of this thread wink.png  

Ziryab

I bought a tool for measuring hypotheticals.

Ziryab
CooloutAC wrote:
m_3_h wrote:



[snip] see above

Yes,   we should focus on what you are suggesting.  I've even suggested as much to a forum mod who wanted to mute me,  who said he would pass the suggestion along to chess.com.   They really should allow people to volunteer into a pool to play against the GM streamer.  Which would be better then going anonymously into the community of people queuing for competitive matches.    Chess.com could even make it only an option and privilege for subscribers only as a selling point.  

 

This is reasonable. And using the mechanism to suggest site improvements in the proper way to go about it.

I’ll add my support to the view that speedruns should be against willing participants.

athlblue
m_3_h wrote:
kracker12345 wrote:

Ahem. Learn from the good players.


You're rated 2000+ on blitz and my highest has been 1300. I'm 100% sure I'm learning nothing from playing you as all your moves are at a depth I can't calculate so zero learning to be done there.

Playing against Hikaru would be even worse, even if he's explaining how if I make "this move" I get matted in 6 moves, I can't see that far ahead regardless of how many times that happens, so nothing to learn really.

When you then match Hikaru vs a 400 rated player, it's like telling the ants to learn to avoid the boots by getting stepped on repeatedly. 

Who cares about who you're playing against. You are playing against the pieces not the person sitting behind the pieces. I don't care that I am playing a rude guy. If he's better thatn me, then I can learn. You're just judging people.

TRAP4MOUSE

Bored of reading the conversation 

athlblue

You're assuming people don't get their rating points back. They do. And you don't have proof because speedrunners aren't going to lose so many games just to go down to 400. 

fluffytitbabbler
CooloutAC wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
krazeechess wrote:

ok so after all that speedrun debating what is the final stance

 

Chess streamers should be required to submit to a human subjects review board before they do a speedrun.


BTW,  here is the answer to your question if  I really believe Super GM's play rated 400 players.  Beating a 400 Player: Step by Step - YouTube

Hikaru has been trolling this thread for over a week now.  So has Daniel Narditzky,  releasing speedrun video after speedrun video to spite it imo. Daniel even said he would no longer do speedruns and focus on his OTB tourney prep,  but has since abandoned that now.   And Hikaru has been making especially clickbaity and toxic titles like "ripping the rating away from the 1200s" for example.    Absolute sociopathic behavior.  Hikaru is without a doubt , just by the way he talks about and interacts with his stepfather and brother as if they are complete strangers to him. a sociopath.  And this is what they are teaching kids to be like.

I'll be getting muted for this but it must be said.   He is literally encouraging rating manipulation just with his youtube titles alone. Regardless if the points in his matches are returned he undermined the competitive matches of his opponents and breeded people who are doing it unofficially.    And he knows it and is doing it spitefully because of this thread now.   I mean you can read one past thread on here where a kid posts "i want to speedrun just like HIkaru"  and many posters replying to him telling him to do it  saying its fun.    I've seen chats on many twitch streams talking about having multiple accounts even one for each variant, and streamers literally encouraging it.  I find this unacceptable and why I feel Lichess is way more mature and honest and the matchups bear that out.

This is why I can come to no other conclusion as to why the ratings, especially at the beginner levels on this site, feel so lopsided and why there is so many new accounts compared to lichess who is known to ban even super gms.    These streamers are encouraging the use of multiple accounts.

You didn't watch the video, did you? At the end, Hikaru talked to the guy and praised him for well played game. He was in the stream chat and so presumably knew who he played,  and the game itself was quite instructive. Not the best example you picked here 😂  

Ubik42
once every 500 or 1000 games I play some smurfing GM omg.

I lost 100 rating points in a tiltfest a couple days ago. maybe I can console myself that of the 9 games in a row I lost one of them was to Naroditsky I feel so much better, now I just need excuses for the other games too can anyone help with that
fluffytitbabbler
Ubik42 wrote:
once every 500 or 1000 games I play some smurfing GM omg.

I lost 100 rating points in a tiltfest a couple days ago. maybe I can console myself that of the 9 games in a row I lost one of them was to Naroditsky I feel so much better, now I just need excuses for the other games too can anyone help with that

Weren't those other 9 smurfing new accounts brainwashed by streamers into speed running? 🤔

Ziryab
CooloutAC wrote:
 

No,  I assumed he was speedrunning like he does normally.

 

An honest admission of where you are getting your information. Thanks.

3point14159too

So let me get this straight OP, you think that you are playing against smurfs most of the time?

sleepingpuppy

most people you play seem to be legit since they have quite low accuracy and etc

Ubik42
Coolout if you want to prove you have ever played against a speed runner than dig up the youtube with your name it.

Until then I will assume you have never played a speed runner just like I never have and I doubt I ever will.
Ziryab
CooloutAC wrote:
3point14159too wrote:

So let me get this straight OP, you think that you are playing against smurfs most of the time?

half the time I think I am playing against an alt account.  Whether the intention is to smurf doesn't really matter.   But the fact people having multiple accounts is so acceptable in this community is a huge problem.  And the speedrunners are leading by example.

 

I often feel that my opponent is cheating. It is not uncommon the have this suspicion, especially when I am playing badly. When I do postgame analysis, however, I learn that my suspicions were because my board vision was so poor in that particular game. It is always worst when I am tired or angry.

I've looked at a large number of your games. I've not seen any evidence of a strong player smurfing. The strongest opponents you've faced among the several dozen games I've examined have been 1700ish on Lichess, and these players make fundamental errors that a master would never make.

That is not to say that I can be certain you have not played against an alt account. It is quite possible that you have. But, I've looked at enough of your games to know that you haven't faced any alt accounts in the past five days.

3point14159too
CooloutAC wrote:
3point14159too wrote:

So let me get this straight OP, you think that you are playing against smurfs most of the time?

half the time I think I am playing against an alt account.  Whether the intention is to smurf doesn't really matter.   But the fact people having multiple accounts is so acceptable in this community is a huge problem.  And the speedrunners are leading by example.

How are you sure that people have multiple accounts? And why are these alt accounts bad?

fluffytitbabbler
Ziryab wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
3point14159too wrote:

So let me get this straight OP, you think that you are playing against smurfs most of the time?

half the time I think I am playing against an alt account.  Whether the intention is to smurf doesn't really matter.   But the fact people having multiple accounts is so acceptable in this community is a huge problem.  And the speedrunners are leading by example.

 

I often feel that my opponent is cheating. It is not uncommon the have this suspicion, especially when I am playing badly. When I do postgame analysis, however, I learn that my suspicions were because my board vision was so poor in that particular game. It is always worst when I am tired or angry.

I've looked at a large number of your games. I've not seen any evidence of a strong player smurfing. The strongest opponents you've faced among the several dozen games I've examined have been 1700ish on Lichess, and these players make fundamental errors that a master would never make.

That is not to say that I can be certain you have not played against an alt account. It is quite possible that you have. But, I've looked at enough of your games to know that you haven't faced any alt accounts in the past five days.

All sound and rational arguments, very likely 100% true. You'll never convince him though, he's not here to be logical, if you notice any and every debate for him ends with moralizing, blaming streamers, and the rotten culture they created😂. I think this issue to him is personal. Another issue is his inability to accept his chess ignorance and poor judgement as to why he feels his games are not competitive. I knew/know this sort of people IRL, lost cause.

fluffytitbabbler

And a holier than thou complex as well😂

ALEKS240510

Hello

3point14159too
CooloutAC wrote:
3point14159too wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
3point14159too wrote:

So let me get this straight OP, you think that you are playing against smurfs most of the time?

half the time I think I am playing against an alt account.  Whether the intention is to smurf doesn't really matter.   But the fact people having multiple accounts is so acceptable in this community is a huge problem.  And the speedrunners are leading by example.

How are you sure that people have multiple accounts? And why are these alt accounts bad?

I got one guy spamming my inbox right now with 4 accounts lmao.  He says he plays one when he gets tired.    One of the things I find very telling when comparing lichess to chess.com.  is most profiles are either less then 2 months old,  or have less then a couple hundred games played.     Having multiple accounts is literally talked about openly on these very forums and on twitch,  and even encouraged by streamers.   Its extremely common even though its against TOS for good reason.  The resaon why people don't respect the TOS,  is because this is a site literally allow some people to use alt accounts.  

As far as I am aware, alt accounts are closed pretty quickly. What examples do you have of people bragging about having alt accounts on the forums? And speedruns are pretty instructional imo.

fluffytitbabbler
CooloutAC wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
3point14159too wrote:

So let me get this straight OP, you think that you are playing against smurfs most of the time?

half the time I think I am playing against an alt account.  Whether the intention is to smurf doesn't really matter.   But the fact people having multiple accounts is so acceptable in this community is a huge problem.  And the speedrunners are leading by example.

 

I often feel that my opponent is cheating. It is not uncommon the have this suspicion, especially when I am playing badly. When I do postgame analysis, however, I learn that my suspicions were because my board vision was so poor in that particular game. It is always worst when I am tired or angry.

I've looked at a large number of your games. I've not seen any evidence of a strong player smurfing. The strongest opponents you've faced among the several dozen games I've examined have been 1700ish on Lichess, and these players make fundamental errors that a master would never make.

That is not to say that I can be certain you have not played against an alt account. It is quite possible that you have. But, I've looked at enough of your games to know that you haven't faced any alt accounts in the past five days.

 I never talked about any such thing.  Stop trying to deflect the thread and put words in my mouth,  you are going to end up getting yourself muted.   wow....   Speedrunning has to do with alt accounts undermining competitive matchups even though it is something sanctioned by this site.   That is the subject of this thread please learn to stay on topic.

Doesn't matter whether or not you talked about any such thing. His post explains your issues, troubles, misled impressions and flawed conclusions quite well. The connection you have made between streamers' speedruns and sandbagging/smurf/alt accounts is weak at best, and a pile of horse manure at worst.