Why Can't I Uncastle a Castle ?

Ghostess said:  "Is that asking too much ? I mean, I'm trying to get to the bottom of all this and you ppl are treating me like I'm here as your object."

Really?... Now I ask you,  Ghostess,... Have we been toying with YOU... or have you been toying with US?

I think your post ( #436; pg. 22 and #470; pg. 24) answers the question as to who has been toying with who.

What do you say, we shake hands and call it a draw?

We're much more in a mexican standoff than any love triangle....that I can assure you !

There's a chance I'm just falling here. IDK, maybe time will tell. This game has taken me to places I never really knew. 

But in the end ?....I am begging to be 4given - if I only knew the sin of my argument.

Pleez know that, okay ? 

since @The_Ghostess_Lola responded to my post i will make one last response. your entire argument against my post is that capturing and promoting are other ways to move more than one piece in a turn. but the rules specifically state that each of those are separate from moving. so we are left with the fact that castling is the only way you can move 2 pieces in 1 turn and the fact that castling can only be done when neither the king nor rook have moved previously. In standard rules un-castling is strictly barred. If you want to play a variant where it is allowed go ahead and do so when you have the chance. You have asked before how rulebooks change. That happens when a large number of people see a problem with rules and decide to fix it. do you have an intelligent response or will u insist on the continuation of the 25 page troll?

Sophistry I tell ya. Your argument can be defeated with one word.... PRECEDENCE!!!

That's beside the point. We're not debating whether or not uncastling should be allowed. We're debating whether or not it's legal.....which it's not.

When you castle, you must move your king from it's original square two squares towards the direction of the rook on it's original square. That's the only way you can move your king besides the usual way of moving it to any adjacent square.

This is what Lola doesn't (Or chooses not to) understand. Lola also seems to think that because he doesn't understand the rules that he is allowed to interpret them in any way he want's and play the game according to that interpretation.

Lola said: "Nowhere in USCF Rules does it state that one must have some prior knowledge about chess to interpret their rules. That's why I have the right (since USCF knows not my rating) to take these rules as letter."

Clearly, Lola is not willing to acknowledge any of this or admit he is simply wrong.

His argument to this is that uncastling is not the same as castling. Therefore, the rules for castling to not apply to uncastling. Doesn't matter though. There's only two ways of moving the king. He's talking about a 3rd way.

I agree, but that does not help your argument, "What seems to be the problem here anyway?"

It does however help my argument that the rules do not allow for a 3rd way to move the king. 

Okay. Let's get something straight right here & right now.

This is not a derivative of variant chess. Okay ?

There are not different rules for capture, there is not a change in move order, the game's objective doesn't change, we're not adding, subbing, or taking off pieces, there's not a hex chessboard here, no fairy chess, 960, Upside-Down chess, Anti-chess, or blah blah blah.

Show me (1) definition where proposing to uncouple a castle is variant chess. Just one !

So quit making it bigger than it is....you're starting to make me mad....hissing !

Posts #488 (Bronstein) & #489 (P2P) are excellent examples of how the game would be enriched WITHOUT varying the game itself. AND it would homogenize the fact that pieces can indeed return to where they came without implied violation.

I use the word implied 'cuz I'm not at all comfortable w/ FIDE's wording.

And something else that shoots down what Charlie Army is saying in #492 in that I'm asking for a 3rd way to move your K. That's bullshot !

Okay. We can rule out the move of the R & focus specifically on the King 'cuz the Rook really doesn't hop over the K. So therefore, the Kn remains the only piece that enjoys this liberty.

Since the castle move is a simultaneous 2-piece switcherroo, the R isn't hopping over anything....as the K isn't hopping over the R. It just feels that way 'cuz FIDE rules state u must touch your K first.

Well, get that idea outta your head that you are hopping the R over the K. There are no 1/4-ply moves in chess. No such thing. On a K-side white castle, you could grab your K w/ your thumb, then grab your R (same hand) w/ your pinky and do a wrist twist & remain touch-move legal.  

So. That's leaves the focus on the K & its right to move two-squares in either direction on the cartesian coordinate in the x-direction only. Tim Krabbe's argument was, "Could the K castle in the y-direction too ?"

That got answered w/ a rewrite of 3.8a....the now-famous same rank amendment....

So. Let's keep our focus on the movement of the K exclusively....where it belongs - and go from here 'cuz there is NO basis when undoing a castle that supports the K is making an unprecedented 3rd type of move.

Ruy Lopez wrote in his eponymous 1561 piece about today's current castling move. IOW's, he basically standardized it 'cuz it sounds like the top players of the game in Western Europe in the 15th & 16th centuries wanted frontal attacks toned-down to a controlled aggression.

He said nothing about it being irreversible !

This apparent irreversible rule (& I use apparent strongly !) has been an arbitrary fabrication as time has passed 'cuz they say it angered opponents when they launched an attack on a castled K & the player just simply "uncastled"....rendering their attack toothless.

Well, too bad....my <3 bleeds blue !

 Ghost you could be a chess rules activist and pull this move at an actual game please have it recorded I want to see it.

Well, go to Norfolk in August & watch it live. I'm half-white, usually in all-black (when I'm not in a one-piece), with long lamp black fingernails.

....you'll know me when u see me.

I have (2) older brothers (still alive) who used to beat me over when I was growing up. I luv them both so much today, but it turned me into a fighter. My dad always told me, "Lola, don't ever let them beat the woman outta you." And they never could.

So here I am. I'm really emotional....& proud of it. I'm usually purring but once in a while I hiss. And there's not much happening in between. 

I have a couple of questions, The_Ghostess_Lola:

1) In your original post, YOU quoted Fide Rule 3.8 which states that the King may only be moved in two ways,  to"any adjoining square not attacked"  or by castling, described explicitly as  "a move of the king and either rook of the same colour along the player’s first rank, counting as a single move of the king and executed as follows: the king is transferred from its original square two squares towards the rook on its original square, then that rook is transferred to the square the king has just crossed", subject , as you know, to certain restrictions. No other legal moves of the king are described.

You, yourself, negated ALL your arguments in your ORIGINAL POST by quoting FiIDE 3.8 !

My first question is...  WHY DID YOU DELETE YOUR ORIGINAL POST?

2) My second question is, WHY DO YOU KEEP CHANGING THE NAME OF THIS TOPIC?

Question #1....I didn't....I haven't touched that thing !

My argument has remained the same - in substance. Now if it's aged ?....it's 'cuz maybe I wasn't entirely clear to my own standards from the get go.

Question #2....I don't know why. Just emotions I guess. Some ppl have been suggesting each day (see posts) that I change the title name. IDC, I'll accomodate. Today's change was mine.

It's also landed itself in 'off-topic' somehow....which has me mad right now.

Well, your post number one (#1) has been deleted, without moderator notation. Perhaps a sprite  or fairy did it.

Emotional title change... Having "conscious uncoupling" issues? If so, I advise this: "Keep Calm and Carry On"

Or as "King" put it in the film "Platoon" :

"There's a way outa' anything, man... Just keep your p__cker hard and your powder dry, and the worm will turn."

You know, if you can just survive a situation long enough, eventually things around you will change.

I wish you all the best!

 Caution: Strong Language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0NHuuuklYQ

Wow....maybe I accidentally did it ! But I had no reason to change it. Maybe someone else did it....hmm. I know it was taken off general chess discussion & put on off topic.

Oh well....