Why do people hate the London System?

I completely agree. Whenever I see a london system player I pull out my checklist and predict every move they play until move 20. They always miss strong moves in the opening in favor of their lazy move order.

Here is a game from Carlsen where he made some interesting decisions like giving up the "precious" lightsquared bishop.

Basically the argue against the London System by haters is that with this system, new players / low level players are SOMETIMES able to do some good attack on them and even sometime outplay them as if they were better players. And of course they hate that as they want all low level player to loose their game and never improve. More : they just "deserve to get their head smashed over the board!" because they are not very good so they don't have a clear understanding. They don't deserve to have some edge if they don't suffer learning like idiots toons of openings and theory.

Well the idiot is not who you think! If your only objection against the L.S. low level players is that you don't want the low level players to have sometimes a nice game where they can just for a while stand a chance against you, then you're just ****** because that's not an objection, that's a pitiful "I want to win" childish whining. If you want to win, be men, just learn to crush the London System by improving against it! By just whining against it you basically just say to low level players "come on guys, if you're feed up with loosing only because you don't know thousands of openings, just improve with the London system : you won't need to learn all openings like all these brutes who always crush you with their opening books in their heads! Let's play a fairer chess and not this learn-opening-by-heart game they call chess".

Hope they will listen to your invitation and you'll learn to play chess then, that mean beat opponent without your "opening understanding" edge. And if you rage against them, then it's YOUR health that will suffer from this hatred, not their! For sure you quite convinced me (low level player) to adopt L.S.

I HAVEN'T seen ANY objection to the London System in the whole discussion that is not basically saying : "I hate low level London players because they ARE low level players". Hey, they don't WANT to be low level! Every player IS low level before he can improve. And when you are low level, you basically want to play a little bit without having to learn all the openings, that's perfectly FAIR and OF COURSE then you look for an opening that is easy, that doesn't really need strong understanding of toons of variations. That's just natural and PERFECTLY FINE and will later lead to more improvements. Just let them improve and beat you some times, and shut the **** up : that IS chess. Obviously the only thing you really dislike is that you may be beaten by people with less understanding - well but that's the game's thing : you have to work to avoid being beaten, someone could find your weakness any moment. If you don't like this game, go play another. You may have no frustration playing Sims for instance as there are no opponent and many cheat codes if you are frustrated to overcome the lack of money/love/friends. I'm shocked with what I read here (hopefully it's to some point second degree I hope/guess) : I never saw any world champ whine against London, nor have real problems beating it, so that shows how it's only your poor skill that you really hate in fact, and that should not if you are mentally balanced, move on the one who reveals it to you.

Now if you're bored by 1d4, just tell these low-level-players-you-hate but who are in fact PERFECTLY FINE in opening London, that they can perform exactly the same (get a good position without thinking much and without depending on opponent moves) with the King's Indian Attack, 1 e4 ... 2 d3 ... 3 Nd2 ... 4 Ngf3 ... 5 g3 ... 6 Bg2 ... 7 O-O ... /then order may be changed depending on the opponent's position, and moves made only when possible and fine/useful and the end moves are just some "nice attack ideas" to find good attack positions not a need, as other attacks can be done easily from that nice position/ 8 e5 ... 9 Re1 ... 10 Qe2 ... 11 Nf1 ... 12 h4 ... 13 Nf1h2 ... 14 Nh2g4 ... 15 h5 ... This way, instead of raging and whining and hate against them, you'll help them, love them (and they will love you in return, that what it takes to make a better world), care for them, find more variety next time you play them, and be happy, in good health far from hatred, without rage and whine. Everyone happy and loving each other. More than anything (as whiners are like that) YOU happy. Clap clap clap (applause). You can copy-paste my "beginner-modified King's Indian attack" and give it to all beginners abusing L.S. : helping beginners is the best way to help chess love grow on the planet, not raging and hating on these poor beginners who just try to survive and improve without spending hours of by-heart-learning. Some are just unable to do so. Don't blame them please!  K.I.A. modified is not my idea anyway, this is from GM Eugene Perelshteyn on iChess.net channel YT.

@Cylvouplay The only problem is that you misevaluate the smositional advantage. Smositions like that are easy to play but the require smositional understanding. Also I think that basic endgames are the same as the grünfeld defense. This is an important smositional difference.

He put so much effort into his post. Good job!

becuse she does not give black counter play!

The London System is female?

When you can type as fast as I do it's not a big deal,  you just type whatever you're thinking at that moment.

Even if that is the case it is not worth the effort for such a pointless question. That's my smositional point of view.

in hebrew  system is a female (:

I see my joke has evolved and become independent from its creator. It's sad yet fulfilling to see your kids grow up.

The numbers don't look good. ( winning percentage)

That's what I do, and it gives me decent results.

That's the wrong numbaaaa ooooooooooooooooh.

Considering statistics about London System, the LS players do particularity poor against Nh5, it's 50% Black Win (Bf5 is only 17% black win with a huge 58% draw and still 25% white win).

https://chesstempo.com/gamedb/opening/1587

Plus you'll notice the Nh5 is the answer from highest ranked players. Still rare answer. Maybe need to know what you're doing then. I'm still prudent with such indication as only 12 games sustain the idea. A safer idea then is c5, then blacks are favoured by statistics with 34% win compared to 27% only for white. and it's the most popular. What is the problem with the London System if white do such poor results? They do really good only against e6 and Nc6.

These stats would suggest to avoid answers c5, c6, Bf5, Nc6, a6. Still have to be prudent, as a good move may seem bad if played by a lot of low level players (maybe e6 isn't that bad for instance as it's natural for beginner who loose more and ruin the stats).
Anyway I'm surprised because for such a FEARED opening, it seems to have really disappointing statistics for white. It seems black should just learn how to crush it instead of rage-quit/whine.

i personally suggest to avoid a QID structure agaisnt the london. black's pieces literally have nothing to bite since d4 is overprotected, and white freely gives away the light squares. you also never get a good chance to liquify the center with d5 since white plays c3, not c4. If you happen to already have the queenside fianchetto set-up , might as well go for a hippo.

I think again human is ok you can win with London System. But again Stockfish London is just a crap system. I lost again Stockfish in 19 moves. I try to play the London again Stockfish I lost

I love to play against LS-players. The majority of them is weak because they just memorize the LS moves but don't understand the resulting positions. As soon as it gets complicated they blunder all their pieces.

I thought there were already books out there explaining anti-London system systems.

A quick search only turns up one: Kiril Georgiev, Fighting the London System, A Black Repertoire.

I just play d5, Nf6 by g6 and Bg7. The grunfeld setup prevents LS players from pulling off their mindless autopilot kingside attack. Most of the time they don't have a clue how to handle those positions.