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why is the analysis so often wrong

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willtitley
I get analysis sometimes claiming that my moves were blunders. Often this is completely wrong. Why?
Martin_Stahl
willtitley wrote:
I get analysis sometimes claiming that my moves were blunders. Often this is completely wrong. Why?

 

Analysis depends on depth. The lower the depth, the less accurate and at low enough depths, it can be completely wrong, since it can take more moves (depth) to actually evaluate correctly.

NikkiLikeChikki
What Martin said. The quick evaluation that’s after the game ends is often different than the more in-depth analysis you get if you choose a game report. Imagine the first is Stockfish level 1 and the last level 10 (just an example, I don’t know for sure). They will often show different moves as being good or bad.
willtitley
Hey, thanks for the replies. Martin, what do you mean by depth?
Moonwarrior_1
willtitley wrote:
Hey, thanks for the replies. Martin, what do you mean by depth?

For example a depth of 10 only looks 10 moves ahead while a depth of 18 looks 18 moves ahead. I think the max for a computer is 40? 

StormCentre3

Bonkers I say ! The tool changes it’s mind from one move to the next- tells you a move was the best and the next ply it becomes a mistake... or vice versa !

= depth 

The downside is players who think the accuracy % is an indicator of engine use and report games as cheating.  The quick analysis tool I heard from Danny long ago is being revised- but she’s still off her rocker. 
One move is a blunder- after the next move it becomes the best ! Not much can be changed as it’s completely depended on depth of search- except perhaps in the terminology used.

NikkiLikeChikki
I wish more *people* would change their minds when provided new information and a deeper way of viewing a situation. Too many are stuck at depth 1.
nklristic
willtitley wrote:
I get analysis sometimes claiming that my moves were blunders. Often this is completely wrong. Why?

What everyone have said is true but sometimes players are mistaken when they think that a certain move by the engine is wrong. There are instances where there is tactics involved where you , for instance, sacrifice a minor piece but after 2-3 moves you get a rook for it or something similar. So, when you think analysis is wrong, my advice is to follow through a couple of engine moves and see if there is a deeper point to the first move engine suggested. 

StormCentre3

Junk the tool. Is a brainstorm gone bad. Made for the beginner player but should not be the default option.

Da-Vere
BadBishopJones3 wrote:

Bonkers I say ! The tool changes it’s mind from one move to the next- tells you a move was the best and the next ply it becomes a mistake... or vice versa !

= depth 

The downside is players who think the accuracy % is an indicator of engine use and report games as cheating.  The quick analysis tool I heard from Danny long ago is being revised- but she’s still off her rocker. 
One move is a blunder- after the next move it becomes the best ! Not much can be changed as it’s completely depended on depth of search- except perhaps in the terminology used.

I think I agree with you @BadBishopJones3. The reason I’m not totally sure about my agreement is that given my level of comprehension and understanding, I cannot always “see” why my move might be a blunder unless I immediately lose a piece. So, I’ve learned that there must be something I’m not picking up yet and try to look further. Often times, I have to give up and move on. 

nklristic

This might have been a subjective thing but I have a feeling that depth 18 was a bit better a few months ago. Now it can happen that the engine says I don't know +1 in the opening  for a pretty normal move. I think that this was rarely the case in the past or at least not as much as I see it now. I check the move later with the tool I have, and it says something +0.3 or 0.4, so pretty normal for the opening. As for straight up blunders, engine rarely makes a mistake. If it says blunder on probably any depth, it is certainly not a good move and you should try to see why is it a blunder. First go with the engine move and see why is it better, if it is needed go a bit further. If you don't come up with anything then make your original move and see what happens with engine line after it. In most cases you will be able to pinpoint why the move is a blunder. 

For more subtle mistakes, that is not always the case and it goes down to your chess understanding.



willtitley
Thanks for all of the replies, I have certainly got a better understanding of it.
O_Canadian

@willtitley -

Yes, an excellent and vexing question, and thanks for asking. Obviously with limitations on computer power and resources, the review engine can’t be right all the time. 

My view is that the engine is right more often than not, and I’m not sure to what degree, but I’d estimate maybe 3/4 of the time, so when it says I made a mistake or blunder, I try to look past my obvious objections and often I can understand its reasoning, sometimes not.

One common best move it gives me is to sacrifice a knight for the sake of forcing the opponent to double up on pawns. Now I completely understand that doubling up pawns is undesirable, but it doesn’t seem worth it to sacrifice a knight. Strange!

O_Canadian

O_Canadian
O_Canadian wrote: how can this be right? I can’t see it.
Martin_Stahl
O_Canadian wrote:
O_Canadian wrote: how can this be right? I can’t see it.
 

11. .. Qxa4 13. Nxa4 Ne2+ 14. Kh1 Nxg3

There's not going to be a big evaluation difference; that's why it's only a miss.

edit: actually, a full review strength it's considered a mistake 

O_Canadian

Well, c6 might not’ve been a great move, but all I see is that by taking the bishop I’m losing my queen to the knight. What am I not seeing here? 🤔

Martin_Stahl
O_Canadian wrote:

Well, c6 might not’ve been a great move, but all I see is that by taking the bishop I’m losing my queen to the knight. What am I not seeing here? 🤔

It ends up with even trades and black stays up a pawn.

BaphometsChess
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