Will computers ever solve chess?

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Avatar of DiogenesDue
pawn8888 wrote:

I was thinking that it might be interesting to program these computers so that a draw isn't an option. It would be interesting to see how differently the games are played when computers are going for a win not a draw.  

They already have this setting/option, as is easy to discover if one looks wink.png.  Obviously, it makes engines play more aggressively.  It also sometimes forces them to lose when in a drawn position because they sacrifice material or ruin their position trying to win. 

Nakamura won a famous game against Rybka in 271 moves this way...Rybka's "contempt" setting was set to max, so Nakamura locked up the the game in a closed position, then waited...when the 50-move rule was about to force a draw, Rybka sacrificed material and lost badly because its contempt setting was set to win at all costs.

Avatar of BlargDragon
9497010838 wrote:
Exactly. What makes chess fun is the human element.

Most of the time, the human element is the least enjoyable thing about this game. Even if the game is perfectly solved, if we can emulate human-like learning and fallibility without the rest of the unpleasantness of the interpersonal experience, we're golden.

Avatar of Coffee_Player
9497010838 wrote:
Those of us who want to sit back and admire chess as a dynamic sculpture, a ballet played by computer against computer, are the true misanthropes. Enemies of their own kind. I relish the injection of an human element. And yes, “an” is the correct formal grammatical usage in this case. Look it up, if anyone cares to be enlightened.

@9497010838 - well said, agreed! happy.png

Avatar of yoctometre

Dodged!

Avatar of billy223

Until Skynet comes on line, I think computers will be able to figure out a lot of theory and in fact, computer analysis has changed many openings theory over the years. What it cannot do is replicate the human artistry of a chess game. This is due to the varied styles in both players and the ability to come across c combinations c that while not as effective as a computer might give in a position, achieve the same end as what the computer suggests as best play. Also, many positions I have played here when placed under analysis give inaccuracies if the evaluation c is say .3 of a pawn difference or if the move allows for tactical play by your opponent. Worse yet is when you go from quick to deep to maximum, the same move may be better or worse c than the previous lower evaluation. So if three different analyses yield three different move notations, it seems unlikely that computer engines and AI Will Dodge l figure out all of chess. A good example is to look at the Blumenfeld Counter Gambit. That opening has a lot of room to expand on theory still.

Avatar of Coffee_Player

@billy223thank you for mentioning Blumenfeld Counter Gambit happy.png

Avatar of MazurP

We haven't even solved the opening phase... For each opening combination there is an equally huge amount of middle game continuations.

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

You cannot prove that the basic position a Queen up is a win. Show me the TB!

Avatar of Elroch

The problem of demonstrating a win with queen odds at the start is definitely easier than solving chess, but is it enough easier to be feasible?

Avatar of pawn8888

I was thinking that there could be a point where the ability to see so many moves ahead might create more problems than answers. Perhaps a computer that can only see 15 moves ahead will beat one seeing 20 moves ahead, if my theory turns out to be correct.. 

Avatar of Hawaiian_King
think of how much storage it would require on that computer cuz even just 4 different numbers can be arranged a multitude of way so the capacity to store and see every possible of outcome of how chess pieces can be arranged on the board would most likely cause a server meltdown from info overload however if it were AI it may do nothing but frustrate it causing it to target humanity who plays for leisure without needing to know all the answers
Avatar of Elroch
pawn8888 wrote:

I was thinking that there could be a point where the ability to see so many moves ahead might create more problems than answers. Perhaps a computer that can only see 15 moves ahead will beat one seeing 20 moves ahead, if my theory turns out to be correct.. 

No.

Avatar of hitthepin
Bumping Sunday
Avatar of samrubinstein

hopefully not

 

Avatar of hitthepin
Well, if we become immortal, then yes.
Avatar of Elroch

Hopefully that is a joke.

Avatar of c4_Strike

Just wait for it.

Avatar of Chessflyfisher

Yes.

Avatar of troy7915
btickler wrote:

"the opposite of your image of him"

I don't have an "image" of Kramnik.  He had the balls to be the last champion to play even odds with an engine.  That's it.  I just thought it was pointless to point out how poorly he played in said match when no other GM would even risk making the attempt ...

 

   It’s easier to project courage by playing a machine, knowing that losing to it won’t endanger your title, than to offer Kasparov a rematch, when Kasparov was still the number one-rated player and was winning strong tournaments left and right. So I question that image of a ‘courageous Kramnik’.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
troy7915 wrote:
btickler wrote:

"the opposite of your image of him"

I don't have an "image" of Kramnik.  He had the balls to be the last champion to play even odds with an engine.  That's it.  I just thought it was pointless to point out how poorly he played in said match when no other GM would even risk making the attempt ...

 

   It’s easier to project courage by playing a machine, knowing that losing to it won’t endanger your title, than to offer Kasparov a rematch, when Kasparov was still the number one-rated player and was winning strong tournaments left and right. So I question that image of a ‘courageous Kramnik’.

Read the first 3 sentences of your quote of me again.  They still apply.  The last sentence still holds true, as well.

There is miles of room between "craven" and "courageous" for Kramnik, or anyone else for that matter.

There should be a logical fallacy for arguing everything by pushing things to opposite extremes of black or white and ignoring other alternatives or any grey area at all wink.png...oh wait there (informally) is:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma