Will Fischer Random chess now also become more popular and accepted on all levels?

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SpiritoftheVictory
forked_again wrote:

Magnus didn't get exposed.  He is a great chess player and a great 960 player.  Before this Tournaments there have been a lot of not sanctioned 960 Tournaments.  Hikaru was considered the best by way of his past performance, and he truly is also a great 960 player who beat Wesley earlier in this Tournament.

In last year's unofficial 960 championship Carlsen beat Nakamura.  A couple if days ago, Carlsen beat Caruana.  

Carlsen is a great 960 player.  Wesley was awesome and earned the championship.  Carlsen was not exposed.  That's just a ridiculous thing to say.

 

Well articulated. Perhaps Carlsen was in a bad form or mood going in. However, the other commentators have a point as well - in classical format, Carlsen has the advantage because he worked harder on chess. But that's not his fault, if anything, it's his merit. Fischer Random/Chess 960 is an altogether different animal - you rely more on natural ability and less on hard work. Personally, I still prefer the Classical Chess but also acknowledge its flaws.

fabelhaft

”the other commentators have a point as well - in classical format, Carlsen has the advantage because he worked harder on chess”

I think it is being stated a bit too often as some sort of fact that Carlsen works harder than the other top players, while the other top players are more relying on talent. My impression is rather that Carlsen simply is more talented, but that doesn’t translate to him winning every event in every format or time control. Now and then he has a bad event (often in Norway for some reason), like now when he after all won easily against Caruana. And every time that happens there will be lots of posts more or less implying that Carlsen is all prep and no talent :-)

fabelhaft

The funny thing with the standard description nowadays of Carlsen as having an advantage based on his working harder is that the complaint used to be the opposite. Kasparov always complained about Carlsen being lazy and working much too little on chess. When their cooperation stopped it was clear that one reason was Carlsen not wanting to put in as much effort as Kasparov wanted him to. Also many of the articles in WhyChess referred to statements by guys like Sveshnikov, Tkachiev, etc, about Carlsen not working enough on chess. Sveshnikov was not the only one to categorically claim that Carlsen never would become World Champion, he simply does not work enough. And this was not that long ago, but in 2012, when Carlsen already had been #1 for quite a while. But for World Champion status he was simply considered to be too lazy.

Strangemover

Magnus is an absolute natural IMO. He wins so many games from equal looking positions and by exploiting the tiniest of advantages because he has a 'feel' for what to do. 

Acroduster

“Magnus was already the champion”   Good for him but Wesley stomped a mud hole in magnus and walked it dry. Wesley beat him like a walnut tree. 

fabelhaft

But Carlsen annihilated his opponent today in rated classical chess, what about that one?! :-)

st0ckfish

Im all in for anything that Magnus isnt the best at 🤣

starrynight14
DamonevicSmithlov wrote:

Some may not realize that not long ago Magnus was #1 in the world in every format. AT THE SAME TIME. In classical, rapid, blitz, bullet & even Fischer Random. Yes, he was the FR world champion before he lost this match. Thats a mind boggling achievement and immense talent. He beat Nakamura in a serious Fischer Random match last year to be considered world champion and Naka had beaten maybe Svidler(?) to win it. I guess Svidler(?) won some important Fischer Random tournament to be considered the best in the world. My point is this: there definitely was a chain of title, much like in real estate, that was legitimate. The whole "official" FIDE involvement is merely paperwork and people saying it's "official". But Magnus was already the real FR world champion. I guess it's similar to the early days of world championship matches. So to say taking away opening prep reveals his deficiencies forgets the reality he'd already shown he was the best it. Wesley So just now won it, that's all, he's just the latest in the chain of title. I like Wesley So. He had a great tournament and congratulations to him, but Magnus was already the Champion.

 

Earlier matches were far from official or conclusive.  Most of the best players were involved in this one, though Aronian was in the European Team Championship.  This was specifically a rapid/blitz FR event as well.

AggressiveFlagPlayer

That fisher random event was entertaining.

DiogenesDue
forked_again wrote:
endgame347 wrote:
evert823 wrote:
endgame347 wrote:
evert823 wrote:

It's great to watch the World Fischer Random Chess Championship and great games taking place there. But I wonder if or when this variant will become a more regular part of chess on all levels. In my town there is a chess club devoted to Fischer Random, organizing a competition and a yearly tournament, but that is still really an exception.

do you play FR ?

Yes, I avoid FIDE chess.

how do you find it?- can you post a game ?

Hey endgame do you know you can play 960 here in live or daily chess?

And you can look through Evert823's game history to see a bunch of his 960 games.  

He can also just look farther up the page 8 posts before his query (and only 2 posts after his first post on the thread wink.png)...

Flaze07

I say the crazehouse variant is better

forked_again
DamonevicSmithlov wrote:

It'd be great if they slowed the time control a bit (not too much) so it wasn't mostly a rapid/blitz event. Increase the prize fund to maybe a half mil. I like the open qualifiers but even better would be several large swisses spread over half a year to select the 8 players for the elimination bracket.

Next year instead of slow rapid they will have fast classical.  That's 45 minutes for the first 40 moves, then an additional 15 minutes.  Much better. 😁

DiogenesDue
Acroduster wrote:

The only way chess will grow is in two areas. The first is bullet, the games are quick which makes them perfect for a spectator sport and will fit easily with a broadcast schedule and commercial breaks. 1 or 2 minute games would be perfect.

the other is chess 960, people are extremely tired of tournaments full of draws because of opening memorization. The games are stale, the sponsors aren’t going to fork over money to have the audience put to sleep with the same opening played day in day out, 960 will fix that part and make for much livelier games. 
Just look how magnus got exposed without his vast knowledge of opening theory. 

1. Bullet will never be a spectator sport.  The problem with chess in general is that spectators already cannot understand what is going on at the master level at slower time controls.  Would spectators watch the WSOP if they could not figure out whose hands were actually ahead in Texas Hold 'Em?  No, they wouldn't.  Spectator chess on a mass scale is a pipe dream...see:  Millionaire Chess, the utterly failed copy of the WSOP.

2. Magnus came in second place in the strongest 960 tournament ever held.  That is not being "exposed".  And even if he were being exposed for a lack of knowledge at some chess event, it's a sure bet that you would not be capable of discerning that fact wink.png.

fabelhaft

”Earlier matches were far from official or conclusive”

As far as I recall, no event Carlsen has won has even been conclusive, it’s always the rare second places that are conclusive :-)

MorphysMayhem
dannyhume wrote:
World champions playing it will make it more popular. It may be the answer to those concerns about the draw death and opening theory memorization if classical chess.

I agree. Only time will tell if it will "takeover" as more popular than traditional chess. But I think it will add some new and much needed excitement to the game. 

staples13

I’ve played it, I like it. I wouldn’t say I prefer it. I could take it or leave it 

DiogenesDue
Morphys-Revenge wrote:
dannyhume wrote:
World champions playing it will make it more popular. It may be the answer to those concerns about the draw death and opening theory memorization if classical chess.

I agree. Only time will tell if it will "takeover" as more popular than traditional chess. But I think it will add some new and much needed excitement to the game. 

The problem is, unlike "mad queen" chess, or pushing a pawn two squares instead of one, chess 960 significantly alters the setup/prep for the game and makes it harder to teach and grasp, so it will be a much harder evolution...overcoming the inertia of the single chess opening position is a tall hurdle.  It adds at least a full page to the basic rules inside every boxed set sold just to to describe how the king stays put and the other pieces are randomized, but the rooks have limitations, and castling works like this now, etc.  Think how hard it is to teach en passant to beginners compared to the rest of the rules, and why it a rule that makes sense historically when you understand how chess used to be, and then imagine trying to explain 100 years from now when 960 is the standard why castling works the way it does in 960.  

I prefer 960 and would like to see it become standard, but I don't see it happening.  If it does, there would have to be some little digital led device that just randomizes the back rank for you, included with every box set to make things easy enough where it would not be an obstacle.  That adds a dollar or two to every chess set sold.

fabelhaft

With the traditional rules you have a long history of games and players and books that you can easily relate to. You can recongnize the classics and connect easier to the more familiar opening patterns. You can look through some tournament books of past events, or some player biography with games, and ”see” the positions in a more natural way. With 960 much of this disappears. Of course there is an advantage with getting these unusual and untraditional positions, but to me the ”usual” chess is much more interesting. 

Ziryab
btickler wrote:

 

I prefer 960 and would like to see it become standard, but I don't see it happening.  If it does, there would have to be some little digital led device that just randomizes the back rank for you, included with every box set to make things easy enough where it would not be an obstacle.  That adds a dollar or two to every chess set sold.

 

There are clocks with this feature.

forked_again

There are so many ways to generate a 960 starting position, it is a complete non issue.  Building it in to chess pieces or boards?  That is a pretty crazy thought but maybe you should work on it.  People thought the pet Rock was crazy too!