Will Fischer Random chess now also become more popular and accepted on all levels?

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Avatar of Ziryab
Morphys-Revenge wrote:

Apparently the last poster didn't read the review about the new opening repertoire by GM Larry Kaufman.

 

He says that 1. E4 IS actually best by test........

 

I've read it. Kaufman is wrong.

Avatar of MasterPatzer81
worstplayer46 wrote:
MasterPatzer81 wrote:
worstplayer46 wrote:

Given that Bobby Fischer was a raging antisemite and conspiracy theorist, it is better marketing to call it Chess960 over Fischerrandom.

Yea he offended a lot of snowflakes. Boohoo.

 

Why do you hate Jewish people, MasterPatzer81? Do you even believe that the Holocaust ever happened?

So now you are inferring that I hate Jewish people. Because in today's regressive leftist climate, not agreeing with blacklisting people for speaking unpopular opinions is akin to hatred.

For your information I have nothing against any ethnicity or religion. But there is no question that Fischer was a genius and deserves respect for his many contributions to the game of chess. Just because you don't agree with or care for the secondary aspects of the man don't mean he shouldn't be given credit for the primary aspects. Everyone has the right to say what they want. And you have the right to disagree.

If Fischer was primarily known for being a Nazi then that might be different. But Fischer was a genius who became mentally ill. Therefore we should understandingly have a little compassion when considering his legacy. Or am I being intolerant?

Avatar of fabelhaft

I think the blindfold games from the old Melody Amber tournament were fun to watch, very impressive to see how someone like Morozevich could line up wins against Anand, who still was one of the best in blindfold. To me 960 will probably always feel a bit unnatural and strange, and less fun than for example blitz or blindfold, but maybe it will become more popular in the future. I don’t think it ever will compete with traditional chess though.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

is sooo exciting cuz ALL the moves are novelties ! its the wild wild west !!

Avatar of dannyhume

I had always heard that Magnus is the natural chess genius who could beat everyone in spite of not knowing openings as well as his high-level peers, but perhaps Wesley is more deserving of that claim. 

Avatar of worstplayer46
dannyhume wrote:

I had always heard that Magnus is the natural chess genius who could beat everyone in spite of not knowing openings as well as his high-level peers, but perhaps Wesley is more deserving of that claim. 

 

Carlsen is a very intuitive type of player,, but his intuitions were developed from the standard chess starting position. If he plays chess960 more often and gets more used to the weird positions, I think he has good chances of dominating the competition.

Avatar of fabelhaft

I think it’s easy to place too much importance on one event. Now the most common conclusion is that So is the best 960 player, that he is the most natural talent etc, but he did lose 3-9 to Nakamura in the quarter finals. So had a great event after the quarter finals, but I don’t think he will win the next 960 event, and my guess is that Nakamura will beat him rather easily also the next time they face each other in one of these  matches.

Avatar of KoldC45E

Yeahh, I believe Random Fischer will become more popular after the world championship. The problem is if we bring this into official rating system,.. the Randomization of chess pieces position actually bring different level of difficulties. I don`t know why in the previous world championship, no one bring this  into surface, maybe because all the member really love the variant and accept the result as well.

I love Random Fischer, it is my favorite chess variant, but it has real issue in rating systemwink.png

Avatar of idoun

It is not an issue, FIDE is working on a rating system for chess960 already. Fischer Random is the future of chess and will replace chess. It will also be introduced in other games. Bughouse players are already complaining about the amount of theory, crazyhouse is developing theory, soon there will be crazyhouse960, 4-player960 (it is already possible to play this on chess.com), and bughouse960. In 100 years people will be shocked that anyone wasted time studying opening theory for 1 specific position which is useless when you change a few pieces.

Avatar of Andrew_2600

If you want to join the elite.

Plus all the cool kids are doing it.

Avatar of Ziryab
idoun wrote:

 Fischer Random is the future of chess and will replace chess. 

 

You are wrong, of course. It may grow in popularity for a few years, but enthusiasm will wane as people realize that even with 960 starting positions, opening theory is developing. Given the failure to erase the influence of theory, folks will return to the richest of these 960 possibilities (the one we’ve been playing for hundreds of years, it turns out).

Avatar of staples13

I’ve played about 50 games of Chess960 and still don’t understand the castling rules

Avatar of Andrew_2600
staples13 wrote:

I’ve played about 50 games of Chess960 and still don’t understand the castling rules

Are you serious?

Avatar of congrandolor
fabelhaft wrote:

I think it’s easy to place too much importance on one event. Now the most common conclusion is that So is the best 960 player, that he is the most natural talent etc, but he did lose 3-9 to Nakamura in the quarter finals. So had a great event after the quarter finals, but I don’t think he will win the next 960 event, and my guess is that Nakamura will beat him rather easily also the next time they face each other in one of these  matches.

I don't get it, if Naka beat So in quarter finals why did So advance in the tournament instead of Nakamura? I think you are wrong

Avatar of congrandolor
staples13 wrote:

I’ve played about 50 games of Chess960 and still don’t understand the castling rules

Don't worry, nobody does. Look what happened to Nepo

Avatar of forked_again
congrandolor wrote:
fabelhaft wrote:

I think it’s easy to place too much importance on one event. Now the most common conclusion is that So is the best 960 player, that he is the most natural talent etc, but he did lose 3-9 to Nakamura in the quarter finals. So had a great event after the quarter finals, but I don’t think he will win the next 960 event, and my guess is that Nakamura will beat him rather easily also the next time they face each other in one of these  matches.

I don't get it, if Naka beat So in quarter finals why did So advance in the tournament instead of Nakamura? I think you are wrong

Results at frchess.com

Avatar of KoldC45E

Idioun, let me explain more about my opinion on the "issue". These two are my RandomFischer matches. Both I played Black, but the thing, I preferto play as black in the second (randomize starting position), because on the first picture ( game position ), I believe Black are difficult to develop & white have more advantage on that.

If this happen to the real tourney, & you need to win, but you get the 1st randomization position & play as Black, it actually give you disadvantage to get point from the match. Well, I don`t know if this what other feel, but for me it is quite unlucky to play black on the 1st position. Randomization or even the Random Fischer chess itself are similar to gambling card games & the points/ ratings are questionable. I think  the solution is the player could play two games in the same time & play black on one & white on the other. To get fair.

Avatar of idoun
Ziryab wrote:
idoun wrote:

 Fischer Random is the future of chess and will replace chess. 

 

You are wrong, of course. It may grow in popularity for a few years, but enthusiasm will wane as people realize that even with 960 starting positions, opening theory is developing. Given the failure to erase the influence of theory, folks will return to the richest of these 960 possibilities (the one we’ve been playing for hundreds of years, it turns out).

Totally wrong, of course. A player can prepare not more than 2 moves for each of the 960 positions. Since it is not possible to prepare more than that, how do you suggest that opening theory is going to influence play? Just because there is an opening theory for 960 positions does not mean it is possible for anyone to memorize it. It's generally considered to take 10 years for a GM to learn ONE opening in chess518 (the "standard" starting position) properly. Multiple 10 x 960 = 9600 years to learn ONE opening for each of the 960 starting positions, which even if possible is useless because what is the chance that the opponent is going to play the 1 position you know? 

And how do you figure that the "richest" of the 960 positions is the one we have been playing? The supercomputer Sesse analysis of all 960 positions found that 650(!) of them have a smaller opening advantage for white than the standard starting position. So it seems that the position that has been used for hundreds of years is quite flawed. 

Avatar of idoun
KoldC45E wrote:

Idioun, let me explain more about my opinion on the "issue". These two are my RandomFischer matches. Both I played Black, but the thing, I preferto play as black in the second (randomize starting position), because on the first picture ( game position ), I believe Black are difficult to develop & white have more advantage on that.

If this happen to the real tourney, & you need to win, but you get the 1st randomization position & play as Black, it actually give you disadvantage to get point from the match. Well, I don`t know if this what other feel, but for me it is quite unlucky to play black on the 1st position. Randomization or even the Random Fischer chess itself are similar to gambling card games & the points/ ratings are questionable. I think  the solution is the player could play two games in the same time & play black on one & white on the other. To get fair.

This is very easy to solve. First we have seen in the FR world championship that black has done extremely well despite white's opening advantage in most FR starting positions (albeit smaller than in chess518). Just because there is a theoretical advantage for white does not mean that one can demonstrate it in practical play. Second, one can take into account the position one gets in the rating calculation. 

I have played in several OTB FR tournaments, a new position per round, and I did not hear a single complaint about getting an unfair color/position. 

Avatar of DiogenesDue
idoun wrote:
 

Totally wrong, of course. A player can prepare not more than 2 moves for each of the 960 positions. Since it is not possible to prepare more than that, how do you suggest that opening theory is going to influence play? Just because there is an opening theory for 960 positions does not mean it is possible for anyone to memorize it. It's generally considered to take 10 years for a GM to learn ONE opening in chess518 (the "standard" starting position) properly. Multiple 10 x 960 = 9600 years to learn ONE opening for each of the 960 starting positions, which even if possible is useless because what is the chance that the opponent is going to play the 1 position you know? 

And how do you figure that the "richest" of the 960 positions is the one we have been playing? The supercomputer Sesse analysis of all 960 positions found that 650(!) of them have a smaller opening advantage for white than the standard starting position. So it seems that the position that has been used for hundreds of years is quite flawed. 

"Generally considered" by whom?  10 years for a GM to learn an opening they are actively studying is clearly overstating by an order of magnitude at the very least.  

Opening theory for 960 will clearly not focus on individual opening books/databases for every 960 starting position, but will adapt to create opening strategies for various configurations that share various characteristics (rook next to king, bishops in the corner, etc.)...as it already has wink.png...

This is still "opening theory" by any reasonable definition of the phrase.  You're purposefully conflating opening theory with distinct opening lines/variations in order to win your argued point, but it's pretty transparent.