Funny how Adams didn't take White's knight on his 18th move. That would have been my choice.
Would you give up your queen for 3 minor pieces in the middlegame?
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Mar 10, 2017
0
#23
sparxs wrote:
Funny how Adams didn't take White's knight on his 18th move. That would have been my choice.
After 18...Rxb5 white has a better move than recapturing 
My gut instinct says no. It has les to do with the pieces or queen though. I just don't see any particular advantage with three pieces and I really don't like to trade unless its a trade that gives me some advantage. Some if I had an opportunity in a game to trade my queen for three pieces and it did nothing else positionally or strategically, I would not take that trade because I only want to trade if it gives me some sort of advantage or compensation, not just to put fewer pieces on the board.
However, if you give me a position that's completely equal except for the presence of three pieces on one side and a queen on the other.... well by definition of the problem you presented me, I don't really care because the position is equal. However, I would say that the more pieces/pawns there are the more I prefer the queen and as the board gets more traded off I would prioritize the ability to pile up on something rather than mobility, since endgames tend to be slow and based on pressure so the fact that the queen can go anywhere on the board in two moves isn't relevant if my king isn't in danger and I don't need to worry about coordinating a defense.
Mar 10, 2017
0
#25
re: my last comment, I guess recapturing is fine? Either way, Rd8+ is messing it up.
Anyway, the b file is dangerous for white. Here's a game where black wins.
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
Rd8+? This is obviously just cursory at this point but he would need a bit of time getting his rook out again. Interresting game for sure. Thx
sparxs wrote:
Funny how Adams didn't take White's knight on his 18th move. That would have been my choice.
After 18...Rxb5 white has a better move than recapturing
Mar 10, 2017
0
#27
Humbleweed wrote:
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
As for pawnless endgames:
Here's a fortress with just two minor pieces
And most two knight vs queen positions similar to (below) are also a draw
Not sure what you are saying did the minor pieces win_?
Fortress means a draw.
In the B+N one notice how the 3x3 area around the white king is off limits to the black king. White just shuffles his king back and forth and there's no way to be mated.
Although I think if, for example, the white king ventures to g3, and the black queen lands on g1, the fortress breaks down, but I don't remember the details. You might have fun exploring such positions on sites like this:
http://www.k4it.de/index.php?lang=en&topic=egtb
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Humbleweed wrote:
When that happened to me as a kid I used to cry so hard lol
sparxs wrote:
At my level no. That said I have played my chess computer that gave up the Q and still won.
I'm just not good enough., but that does not matter
Winning is not everything..Like my other great pleasure, golf. as long as I play well that works for me..its all about participation.
So I have come across this lesson, but I would be hard pressed to exchange my queen, I think. Maybe I'm not good enough. Your views?
KissAnimeTV wrote:
I never thought I'd say that to anyone but you gave me the opportunity. What the hell are you doing in my thread?? I checked your site. Stop advertising for chess playing children....
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Mar 10, 2017
0
#31
it depends on the position , and if you dont check your opponents resources, it could cost many bad things in the endgame, however 2 rooks and 2 bishops vs a queen USUALLY wins endgames..
endgames, prevail over openings anyways .... calculation is a must.
I set up some positions tonight. With some thought it does not seem to too difficult to set up a fortress or a position with 3 minor pieces PROVIDED that the king is available for action. Also, a scattered pawn structure plays into the queens hand, especially if a passed pawn can be created. That passed pawn seems to be match winning strong if the Queens side is not alone and has other piece / s supporting. It's been just a short while , but now I may think there are more positions where 3 minor pieces dominate to a queen. Depending on 1 or 2 other strategic factors this may be negated, like time is def a factor here. Thank you all for your contribution. The search continues...
By the way, they are just my thoughts, nothing else. I just played around on my board and tried to find decisive positions. In one evening...
I think it just depends on what are those three minor pieces and the situation.
Closed position and knight-pair/Open position and bishop-pair = good
Closed position and bishop-pair/Open position and knight-pair = not so good
Mar 11, 2017
0
#37
I didn't read all the posts, but i'm sure someone already said it depends on the position. If all three pieces are coordinated and protected, I would for sure. A lot of times though the queen will have some checks available, sometimes those checks lead to forks in the next move or two
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Feb 2, 2020
0
#40
I would prefer three pieces over the queen (especially in the opening or early middlegame) unless the pieces are badly coordinated. (I feel that even queen vs two pieces (in the middlegame) is not easy to convert, despite the 3 points material advantage.)
When chess.com computer level 9 gave me knight odds, I won almost all the time. However, when it gave me queen for two pieces odds (I removed it's queen and removed two of my bishops from the starting position), I lost against chess.com computer level 9 most of the time and never won against it. If I was struggling when it had two pieces for the queen, I would be struggling much more if it had three.
Beginners often overvalue the queen as opposed to a collection of minor pieces.
It obviously depends on the situation, but having 3 pieces, even if 3 pieces + bishop pair for a queen, typically gives the second player an advantage in my experience as long as those pieces can coordinate / be protected from the queen and on active squares.
*The advantage of multiple pieces is that they can exert "extra force" on certain squares - a bishop and a rook attacking f7 means that even 2 defender - a king and a queen, can't "defend" f7, for example. This is how pieces overpower the queen and win pawns.
*The advantage of the queen is that, as opposed to minor pieces, is that it's a single, mobile unit that is hard to capture. Minor pieces are less active, and in bad positions they can be picked off or made inactive one by one. Whenever you see the minor pieces fail, it's probably because they're scattered or difficult to activate, or even get in each other's way.