You don't need an opening reportoire until you hit 2000 ELO - ture or false ?

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pawnwhacker

Look, I sometimes get bored and play a3 and then h3 (as white). These are supposed to be terrible opening moves. But for most opponents, it won't matter. And, as often as not these pawns will have to be moved later, anyway.

 

The point is, I sometimes screw around with an opening because I am sick and tired of the G. Piano, Ruy...blah...blah...etc.

 

But don't misunderstand, please. When I am very serious about the game...I do not mess with what I know to be good openings. They are important...not that the endgames and tactics aren't important, too.

 

To dismiss openings as virtually inconsequential is, well must I use the "stupid" word? OK, I did.

Elubas

Not the s word!

"Look, I sometimes get bored and play a1 and then h1 (as white). These are supposed to be terrible opening moves. But for most opponents, it won't matter. And, as often as not these pawns will have to be moved later, anyway."

Oh, well maybe the s word does fit here, actually.

pawnwhacker

You are playing with my words and, quite frankly, being a smug jerkoff.

Dead-Can-Dance

I think the most important question is: is it fun?

GMegaMan

If you love chess, I don't see how you can resist looking at the openings.

Till_98

guys you will NOT reach 2000 without an opening repertoire! End of the dicussion...

bgianis

You will not even reach 1500 without an opening repertoire. You need a few opening lines and tactics calculation to make your first steps in the chess world. After this you can start improving your endgame in order to become 2000.

Till_98

also interesting how more than 95 percent of the players who answered here are not even close to 2000.

SmyslovFan
Till_98 wrote:

also interesting how more than 95 percent of the players who answered here are not even close to 2000.

Actually, I was surprised at the number of players who did break 2000 who answered the question this time.

Elubas
bgianis wrote:

You will not even reach 1500 without an opening repertoire. You need a few opening lines and tactics calculation to make your first steps in the chess world. After this you can start improving your endgame in order to become 2000.

In my opinion this is almost outright wrong. I can only say that there can be perks to knowing a thing or two about an opening -- to say it's more important than other aspects of the game is wrong, and to say that you have to "wait until you're ready" before you start studying the endgame is ludicrous, seeing that the truth is essentially the opposite. The endgame is where you convert your advantages, and get all sorts of free points and half points that your opponent leaves you behind. It's all for the taking but class players often don't take it!

The endgame is so foundational too, making it very applicable to any situation where you need to create threats and such, and it allows you to judge a current position based on how it will be in the future. It's not to say study just that, but it, along with tactics, are, by a fairly large margin, the most important parts of improving, particularly early on, but also pretty true even for quite high levels.

bgianis

Elubas you are right. I just didn't make clear what I wanted to say. When I wrote "improve your endgame after 1500" I didn't mean "don't stydy the endgame at all until you reach 1500".

Till_98

yes but still less than 95 percent...

acasdai

Definitely ture !

cdowis75

From personal experience, may I suggest to learn the material in the first two or three chapters of Silman's book on endgames.  I consider it critical even for a beginner to have a basic understanding of checkmates, K and P, and basic R endgames.  As I understand, the Russian training program even for beginners place a real emphasis on endgame play because those themes show up even in the middlegame.

pawnwhacker

Eluban:

Edit: In my post #91, I did correct my statement to a3 and h3. It was a simple mistake due to fatigue.

Now, the other thing...you posted in bold red But for most opponentsit won't matter.  You are acting as if you are rubbing a puppy dog's nose in it's doo-doo. That's why I called you a smug whatsit.

You know perfectly well that in the context of which I was speaking, I was referring to most of the people with whom I play...not chess players in general.

Saying all this, all aspects of chess are important. That is all that I've been saying. I never did say that openings are the most important. Take the wax out of your ears. Innocent

pawnwhacker

Laughing

bgianis
cdowis75 wrote:

From personal experience, may I suggest to learn the material in the first two or three chapters of Silman's book on endgames.  I consider it critical even for a beginner to have a basic understanding of checkmates, K and P, and basic R endgames.  As I understand, the Russian training program even for beginners place a real emphasis on endgame play because those themes show up even in the middlegame.

It is obvious that basic endgames and checkmates are needed. But a 1100-1200 player already knows them. Also Paul Keres' book is very good for endgames.

rowsweep

all you need to is :

1. pick one opening that you want to play as black against e4

2. pick one opening that you want to play as black against d4

3. pick whether you want to play e4 or d4 or c4 for white

i think playing 1.e4 is better for under 2000 because it leads to tactical position.  less worry about slight strategic nuances.

that is it.  you don't need to know how to play every single opening.

just play what you know really well.

for example, a person who is a neurosurgeon is good at neurosurgery because he knows the specialty really well and can do it really well.

or a person who is tax lawyer is good at tax law because he knows the subject really well and is a master.  the tax lawyer doesn't need to know about neurosurgery to do his job really well.

so just pick an opening of your choice and just play the openings over and over again.  then try to understand the middlegame plans too. 

you don't need to know everything in chess.  just play one opening really well and you will be fine.

Fischer and Karpov both had a very limited opening repertoire.

Fischer exclusive played the Sicilian Najdorf against 1.e4 and The King's Indian Defense against 1.d4  he still got to 2700

Karpov always played 1...e5 against 1.e4 and he played the Nimzo & Queen's Indian defense against 1.d4. he still got to 2700

Karpov didn't play the kings indian defense as black and didn't need to.

he was really good at the openings he played and had a deep understanding of those positions.

ParadoxOfNone
rowsweep wrote:

all you need to is :

1. pick one opening that you want to play as black against e4

2. pick one opening that you want to play as black against d4

3. pick whether you want to play e4 or d4 or c4 for white

i think playing 1.e4 is better for under 2000 because it leads to tactical position.  less worry about slight strategic nuances.

that is it.  you don't need to know how to play every single opening.

just play what you know really well.

for example, a person who is a neurosurgeon is good at neurosurgery because he knows the specialty really well and can do it really well.

or a person who is tax lawyer is good at tax law because he knows the subject really well and is a master.  the tax lawyer doesn't need to know about neurosurgery to do his job really well.

so just pick an opening of your choice and just play the openings over and over again.  then try to understand the middlegame plans too. 

you don't need to know everything in chess.  just play one opening really well and you will be fine.

Fischer and Karpov both had a very limited opening repertoire.

Fischer exclusive played the Sicilian Najdorf against 1.e4 and The King's Indian Defense against 1.d4  he still got to 2700

Karpov always played 1...e5 against 1.e4 and he played the Nimzo & Queen's Indian defense against 1.d4. he still got to 2700

Karpov didn't play the kings indian defense as black and didn't need to.

he was really good at the openings he played and had a deep understanding of those positions.

What happens when someone wants to play 1. Nf3 against you, or 1. b3 or 1. g3 ?

I personally suggest that beginners stay away from the English opening as white for while.

Lets say you play 1.e4 , you can be confronted by many replies. There are many bad second and third moves by white, that can be made after black makes it's first few moves.

A player needs to understand their strengths, weaknesses and try to play something that gives them the best chances to keep the game managable, regardless of what their opponent should decide to play. This is how systems of play are developed. It is far more effective than playing random openings. You gain experience faster by playing the same openings over and over, when you get a chance.

cdowis75

"It is obvious that basic endgames and checkmates are needed. But a 1100-1200 player already knows them."

I would guess, from experience, that many players even at 1500 and above do not understand "opposition".  I had a game where the 1800 player took a game from a win to a draw.